"The most interesting policy argument in America right now is the debate between conservatives' real position on health care and their fake position.

The fake, but popular, position goes something like this: Conservatives think everyone deserves affordable health insurance, but they disagree with Democrats about how to get everyone covered at the best price. This was the language that surrounded Paul Ryan and Donald Trump's Obamacare alternative - an alternative that crashed and burned when it came clear that it would lead to more people with worse (or no) health insurance and higher medical bills.

Conservatives' real, but unpopular, position on health care is quite different, and it explains their behavior much better. Their real position is that universal coverage is a philosophically unsound goal, and that blocking Democrats from creating a universal health care system is of overriding importance. To many conservatives, it is not the government's role to make sure everyone who wants health insurance can get it, and it would be a massive step toward socialism if that changed.

This view provided the actual justification for Ryan and Trump's Obamacare alternative - it's why they designed a bill that led to more people with worse (or no) health insurance and higher medical bills, but that cut taxes for the rich and shrank the government's role in providing health care."

more from Ezra Klein


.One conservative who is unafraid to say what he means on these issues is the Cato Institute's Michael Cannon:
The Anti-Universal Coverage Club Manifesto

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Thanks WG.  Where does this leave the uneducated and quite likely obese Chump supporter?

.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Edited: 04/17/2017 at 11:51 AM by WG

I think a few of the righties on here will agree with Cannon's position, but that sort of honesty is death at the ballot box.
I think the average Trump voter doesn't think much of it though in much detail, they aren't wonks, they just want their lives to stop getting worse.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Just as long as their neighbor is deported they are happy. 

Losing their chance at affordable healthcare may be the cost of racism.

-------------------------
Let's go blood clot

I believe that universal health care is a philosophically unsound goal. Would say that most conservatives do as well. Not sure about the rest. We currently have two entitlement plans that are financial disasters. Why would we want another one? Will progs finally get something right? History says no.

-------------------------
I :heart; Q

False premise, if you are talking about SS and Medicare as "financial disasters".
They need a little tweaking, but are raging successes' at their objectives.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

The left has proven once again it never considers the long term sustainability of their ill conveived entitlement programs.  The ACA being just one of many examples.  This one was so bad the insurer's are pulling out as quick as they can, exchanges are closing down at an increasing rate and the entire program is on the verge of implosion after just a few years.  A classic example of failure.

The right tried to reform the ACA while maintaining some degree of public benefit while making it some what sustainable.  But they arrived at the  inevitable and obvious conclusion that those were mutaully exclusive objectives.  So a tweeking it will not get.  They decided to leave it as is and let it die a natural death.   More or less as a lessen in sustainability for the liberal masses.  I'm pretty sure it will fail at that too. 

"A little Tweaking."  Is that what you all call the government reaching deeper into the public's pocket?  I think Hugo Chavez called it that too.

A little tweaking is what I call keeping promises, taxing ourselves enough to cover them, not passing them on to future generations.
The right didn't try to "reform the ACA", they created the "ACA". The "freedom caucus" just killed it.

Most successful wealthy states figured this all out long ago.
Retreating to the stupid Chavez card just shows that you've got nothing to add and proves your lack of seriousness.



-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

No basis for any of these claims that I can see.

While bankrupting the country was not one of the objectives, it is a rather big unintended consequence, don't you think? A $70 trillion shortfall is not pocket change. The 400 richest Americans have a combined net worth of only $2.4 trillion. Should we add a few more trillion to that? I say no.

-------------------------
I :heart; Q

Ah, a nice kettle of hot and steamy.............

Don't tread on me!

The ACA never had a chance. Not only did the Right attempt to repel the legislation more than 50 times with no alternative, they also denied the Medicaid expansion in more than half the states, which in-turn kept costs for others high.

The up coming healthcare failure in the US will be all republican. If they don't pull some rabbit out of the bag, trump will be working with Democrats come 2018.

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I was right.

The right has proven once again it never considers the long term sustainability of their ill conveived entitlement programs. 

And that would be DOD...  $50B more per year in perpetuity

The right does not see health care as a 'right'

The left sees health care as a 'right'

The fight continues...

-------------------------
QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

I'm pretty left, but I don't see health care "as a right" for all.
I don't see that in the US constitution.

But it is obvious that caring for each other, not letting people just die, is the compassionate, smart and most cost effective thing to do.
And its also clear to me that the "free market" can't solve this problem. (other than just letting poor people die)

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

The "framers" were smart guys; however, they were not omnipotent.



-------------------------
"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

Democratic platform says - 'Democrats believe that health care is a right, not a privilege, and our health care system should put people before profits.'

https://www.democrats.org/party-platform#universal-health

-------------------------
QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

I know, but I'm not such a fan of that language.
As I said, the right thing to do, smart, but "a right"?

I've never been fond of "a right, not a privilege" sort of talk, without clear definitions of what both of those terms mean.
Fuzzy absolutist talk, and hard to translate into reality, and plays into the politics of the greedy who want poor people to just die rather than pay a little more taxes.

How much health care do we have " a right" too?
Do I have a right to that $10K hair restoration?
Does FK have a right to that Liposuction or penile enhancement he needs?

trivial shit of course, you would say no.
but where does the "right" end?

Do we need to pay for a $10 million dollar cancer treatment for an 90 yr old? Doe she have "a right " to that?
Does a child born with a severe defect that he will soon die from have a right to be kept alive, perhaps in pain for a few day or weeks?

As medical advances continue and it becomes expensive but possible to keep people alive forever, do we have a right to that?

Now don't think I buy the conservative BS that providing health care to all shouldn't be a responsibility of government. It should.
I support single payer, government paid health care for all.
As a choice because it is the right and smart thing to do.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and a say in how we are governed.
Those are our rights.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill