PAFB Inlet



Something must be done.

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So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.

Edited: 02/16/2021 at 02:26 PM by jdbman

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Edited: 12/23/2021 at 09:05 PM by MyNameIsRobertPaulson

This clown is a "Coastal Engineer " for Christs sake ! (What a Total Oxymoron that is ! ) So while most of us SANE surfers were in the ACTUAL lineup, THIS Joker was taking classes in ORLANDO under the Florescent lights and now somehow has the Audacity and Moral Superiority to tell us what is wrong with our Surf Breaks ???? What is wrong with this picture??????

Edited: 02/16/2021 at 04:46 PM by JOESTRUMMER

Are we sure this isn't just simply people wanting a shortcut from the river to the ocean?

I liked the disclaimer, "Disclaimer: I am not a scientist or an engineer.", and the part about "Seal Level Rise". Sigh. I think it's unfortunate that with all the money spent on public education about the Lagoon, this is still a topic.

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dilution is the solution to pollution , who knows ? if done , might get a break with wind protection .

Cocoa Beach, 2016. Do you really want to surf in that?

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Edited: 02/17/2021 at 08:53 AM by tom

^^^^ Exactly. Imagine the view from above when they Un Cork that sh*t hole into the ocean.

Are you sure that's not a picture from China, India or some other country that doesn't care about it's environment? We are the Sunshine State and base our economy on tourism, we would never let our water get that bad, right?

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That's funny, someone thinks there is a possibility of a new inlet being built in Brevard...I guess if you are going to dream....dream big..(oh yea, fix 1st peak while you are at it) Never gonna happen.

Edited: 02/17/2021 at 10:52 AM by SurferMic

We used to catch some nice trout around that mangrove clump just north of 13th.

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I was right.

Maybe a tunnel under the inlet?

An inlet there would change the entire makeup of the lagoon. It's naturally low flow, changing that will efff everything else up. Many unintended consequences.

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Specializing in sarcasm and condescending rhetoric since 1971.

I'm curious how the other inlets, natural (Ponce) and man-made (Sebastian), as well as partial openings (Port Canaveral locks) affect water quality and ecosystem in the lagoon.

This Wikipedia article about Sebastian Inlet discusses concerns about water quality that area of the IRL more than 100 years ago.

It seems to me that we have better water "quality" (clarity) in general near the inlets, but a) I'm not sure exactly how that affects the overall ecosystem; and b) in areas with "bad water quality" near other inlets, is that more due to runoff from nearby civilization or drainage from more distant, rural farmlands and bodies of fresh water?

Obviously, we should and can protect the entire IRL from damage that originates west of it. Building an inlet solely as a quick fix that allows pollution from the west to continue is no answer.

There is also a question of urgency: How quickly must something be done before the lagoon reaches a "practical" point of no return? As long as it would take a new inlet to ever get constructed there, it might still happen faster and provide a quicker "marine revival" than fixes to the west, nearby at least. Would it have much impact on waters farther north, like the mangroves around KSC (MI Wildlife Refuge) and farther north (Mosquito Lagoon)?

Would locks be required at a new PAFB inlet to minimize hurricane surge and saltwater intrusion? In addition to dredging and building a bridge, adding locks would increase the cost even further. Would subterranean intrusion affect shallow-well sprinklers near the IRL to the point of ruining mansion landscapes, or affect nearby (drinking?) freshwater sources like Lake Poinsett and Lake Washington?

One might argue that if sea-level rise accelerates, the entire barrier island will be underwater, making the entire IRL part of the Atlantic Ocean anyway, before construction is finished.




As with everything, it's a gamble. Some of the surprise consequences may be good, some bad. Superbank, anyone? Old SI jetty bump?

I tend to agree in general about the unintended consequences more likely being bad than good. We do know for a fact that the intended consequences of cleaning up the "west side" will be good. A subliminally intended consequence is that it puts some restrictions on development across most of Central Florida, which we desperately need. Unfortunately, that's what makes it a hard sell to government and to landowners/developers with influence. As long as they can use our lagoon as their toilet and not have to pay anything to unclog it, that's what they'll do.

I don't know the answers; I'm just pointing out a few questions and factors that should be considered.

Casual observation... RE - that pic

I have often wondered why South Florida or West Florida do not look like this, even though they have much higher population densities.

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Worst thing I ever read - "No tropical cyclones at this time"

Edited: 02/19/2021 at 03:45 AM by wehorde

Time travel back to Tampa Bay circa 1980. Or just look at the news reports from Biscayne Bay this past summer. They get nasty when they get too much waste in the water. Tampa Bay watershed is light years ahead of northern IRL for wastewater control. It was really bad over there and is a lot better now. Back in the 1980s we spent a little money converting some critical areas to sewer in Brevard and doing a little bit to require new development to deal with storm water rather than just sending it to tide. C54 is mostly closed these days, though there is some Fellsmere ag water that still needs to be re-diverted to the SJR. That bought us some time before the lagoon really shit the bed. But population pressure has overwhelmed a stagnant pollution control system. We need big upgrades.

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Edited: 02/23/2021 at 10:16 AM by scombrid

Without reading the article, I support an Inlet at Patrick. Been saying it for years. Still need to get the actual problem taken care of, but this would definitely be great for the lagoon, the local economy, and more. I'm sure it would make for a new decent surf spot as well. Just my 2 cents, but I'm no scientist or engineer either.

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R I P Mama G.

@Salt.And.Savagery.Fishing

@Laserwolf.Laserwolf

RE : just spewing bs then f off. Need a Mirror , Mate ?

I said:" something needs to be done." I did not say this was the answer. I put it out there for consideration. But 2 of you are intellectually bankrupt. ? So yea

See below:

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So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.

With all DUE little RESPECT , I for one , personally prefer NOT to have my Coastline " Re- Engineered " in any way, shape or form at all, period ! ( The mere title of your occupation ,strongly suggests that you can some how override Mother Nature, bend her to your will and put her in her place, , if only you could see the folly of your ways ! )

Edited: 02/17/2021 at 06:25 AM by JOESTRUMMER

I tend to agree with Joe. If mother nature wants an inlet there, I'm not going to try and stop her. But I certainly don't want anyone else trying to do her job.

speaking in euphemisms, with no real point, no logic, simply parroting what others have said, regardless if they themselves or the people they are parroting are "intellectually bankrupt." "If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off." dismissive attitude and no room for actual discourse? you sir, may need to check yourself

IN let

wehorde "Casual observation... RE - that pic

I have often wondered why South Florida or West Florida do not look like this, even though they have much higher population densities."


They don't sit at the northern end of a lagoon?



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"If I say it's safe to surf this beach, captain, then it's safe to surf this beach!"

Edited: 02/21/2021 at 06:45 AM by SurfCaster

The outflow from Okeechobee turns everything it touches into a nightmare, right down to toxic algae. There is a reason they hold the lake water high in election season. Green sludge flowing by million dollar homes is bad politics.



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I was right.

Edited: 02/21/2021 at 08:57 AM by Cole

By product....... of the Brevard county forefathers wanting everyone to move there? It was an amazing place - back in the day...

Good point, I recall when I lived over on the west coast in the 80's, all the way up into the west end of the Bay area (Vallejo), it was pretty icky.



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Worst thing I ever read - "No tropical cyclones at this time"

Edited: 02/22/2021 at 11:46 AM by wehorde

Never say never.......no matter how polluted ,or how far gone ,it can be done :

Edited: 02/22/2021 at 10:22 PM by JOESTRUMMER

It is an interesting idea for sure. I'd be curious on what the tidal changes would do to the banana river. Living on South Merritt island and directly across from Patrick I would have a close inlet to the Ocean! Property value would go up, but would I see my backyard underwater during high tide?

The lagoon is dirty for sure. I think a flush would do it wonders and bring back some life to it.

I remember moving here in the late 70s and seeing pods of mullet that you could walk on to cross the river. Nowadays, I can't remember the last time I saw a mullet pod.

I'm no expert, but worth looking into. (and, selfishness, make a great jetty surf break as well! )

Every time I hear this, my disgust mounts. Let's put this proposal in simple terms - we've f'd up the river with our sh_t so we should flush that toilet into the ocean. People used to think the river was so big that it wouldn't matter, now they are saying that about the ocean. Here's a better idea - quit flushing our sh_t, including stormwater, septic tanks (they leach through our very porous soil), toilets, lawn and plant fertilizers, etc, etc, etc, into ANYTHING. Let's spend the money and make the effort to clean things up!

The halt in sand flow would carve A1A from in front of Patrick. A pump house would be required. And a bridge. And navigation buoys. And jetties. And rock walls.

State funding? Ain't a goin to happen. They can't even be bothered with pollution reduction.

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I was right.

I always thought if we have a real bad Cat 5 roll through right there that would be a new inlet.

Hard to know what effects it would have even if it is researched and studied ad nauseam because I don't think we could factor in mother natures way of adjusting. We humans feel like we can control everything and then she smacks us with a natural disaster to try to put us in check.

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I imagine tidal flow wouldn't be any more that a mile or two either direction, which would leave a great part of the lagoon unaffected. That and Sebastian wheezes the same water back and forth when the crap from C54 is released.

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I was right.

Edited: 02/19/2021 at 09:35 AM by Cole

literally none of this stuff matters... If it is good for real estate value it's gonna happen science, logic, reasoning, betterment of humanity, doesn't matter... if it's good for $ it's gonna happen.. NEXT

RE : Literally none of this stuff matters... If it is good for real estate value it's gonna happen science, logic, reasoning, betterment of humanity, doesn't matter... if it's good for $ it's gonna happen.. NEXT .............. : Truth spoken !

Edited: 02/19/2021 at 04:24 PM by JOESTRUMMER

IRL Symposium was this week. http://www.indianriverlagoon.org/symposium.html Buncha dang science geeks (guilty) talking about the Lagoon. One item being studied, a pump at Patrick to move seawater to the Lagoon. That flushes (double entendre) the Banana out Sebastian Inlet. Ew. Be careful what you wish for.

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Pumps and inlets and flows oh my!

But green grass fails to be mentioned.

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I was right.

Cole, the closest reasonable discussion I heard about source control was during q and a of keynote speaker Ed Phlips, UF. When asked about an Inlet, filter feeders, etc. as means to clean up the Lagoon, his answers were, paraphrased, "that could work or help but source control...". My interpretation anyway. Quick notes on source control: eliminate ornamental fertilization, require reuse water to meet surface water standards, tie in septic to sewer. It ain't rocket science.

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In Indian River County, it's turning out that getting lawns away from seawalls by even a few feet, with buffers of no-fertilizer naitve plants, is sufficient to help local water clarity.

Source control is the only real option and that's not going to happen with the current "climate" in this state.


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I was right.

Let's get this proposal together with the First Peak Project and the Guvment, throw a few billion bucks at them. What could go wrong?

Maybe in the meantime we should quit flowing stuff into the lagoon (it's not a river!) that turns it green.

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"If I say it's safe to surf this beach, captain, then it's safe to surf this beach!"

An inlet produces tidal flow for up to 7 miles away from what I have read. The dilution from clean ocean water should help reduce the algae blooms to some degree which is needed so the little remaining sea grass can get light during it's growing season. Some argue the salinity of ocean water would cause issues with sea grass growth as well. At this point there isn't much to lose. An inlet won't address the source of the issue, but it would buy us time to address those issues. The needed changes will take years if not decades and cooperation from multiple counties and cities. With the population growth and complexity of pollution sources I believe we are already past the point of being able fix the issue. Hope I'm wrong.

"An inlet produces tidal flow for up to 7 miles away from what I have read. The dilution from clean ocean water should help reduce the algae blooms to some degree which is needed so the little remaining sea grass can get light during it's growing season. Some argue the salinity of ocean water would cause issues with sea grass growth as well. At this point there isn't much to lose. An inlet won't address the source of the issue, but it would buy us time to address those issues. The needed changes will take years if not decades and cooperation from multiple counties and cities. With the population growth and complexity of pollution sources I believe we are already past the point of being able fix the issue. Hope I'm wrong." foamball


What he said.....


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So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.

Buy us time? For what? How about we take all those millions needed to buy property and construct and maintain an Inlet, and dump it into upgrading wastewater and stormwater treatment instead? I guarantee you could have that work contracted and complete before permits are even granted for an Inlet. Sheesh.

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As a surfer/fisherman, I love the idea of on inlet. As a realist, I say let's come up with a plan that will work at cleaning the lagoon and Tom's ideas have the most merit.

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I was right.

Ditto. (To anyone that thinks this is a good idea) But can you imagine how bad the erosion will be south of this new inlet. Our sandbars/beaches are already ruined enough from all the sand dumping. Take a boat ride out Sebastian inlet and run the beach down to Wabasso and ask yourself if you want Satellite - Mel beach to look like that (because it will)....the beach is horrendous in that part of IR county. PASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

When I was a kid on Old Tampa Bay adjacent to a new finger-canal development, the local waters were attractive, but the bay was seriously polluted. The 1960 hurricane might have done a bit of temporary good by sucking a great deal of water out of the bay (it went 40 miles inland rather than hit Clearwater, just like Charley in 2004).

Restoration of seagrass beds and water quality has set a good example for the state.

Good public service announcement pandaman. Also, our local National Esturary Program meetings are conducted in Florida Sunshine and welcome citizen voices. Onelagoon.org

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in the words of phil collins.. TOO MANY PEOPLE MAKING TOO MANY PROBLEMS

Viera used to be wetlands. Hell, I can remember when Duda got tagged for digging drainage ditches. The $30 grand fine sure did a lot to dissuade them.

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I was right.

Edited: 02/23/2021 at 01:02 PM by Cole

so true... like the desoto sewage leaks.. or when they dump all the raw sewage into the river... paying those fine every few years are way cheaper than actually fixing our infrastructure problems... "cost of doing business"..

Edited: 02/25/2021 at 09:29 AM by MyNameIsRobertPaulson

5th generation Duda here, I tried researching that on my own and couldn't find anything on that other than when Brevard got 240 acres from us through eminent domain for the waste water treatment facility and artificial wetlands. We tried to get some language in the "petition" to get limits on the level of pollutants Brevard was allowed to discharge in our canals (which go to Lake Winder and eventually St Johns river) but it wasn't allowed in the Brevard Count v. Duda Sons Inc case. I'm curious what exactly the $30k fine is for as we consider ourselves stewards of the land and usually go far and above any legal or environmental regulations for any of our endeavors.

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Heavy is sign of reliability

Are there any inlets that people don't like?

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"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

Digging ditches to drain the land.

I imagine that's where the 4-mile canal came from.



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I was right.

Edited: 02/26/2021 at 03:25 PM by Cole

Please check out the brevard county save our lagoon page, and the citizen oversight comittee. This is where YOUR money is going, and if you think it is better spent elsewhere let them know!!! https://www.brevardfl.gov/SaveOurLagoon

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I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life