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Topic Title: nurse in Utah
Topic Summary: unlawful arrest
Created On: 09/04/2017 12:21 PM
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 09/04/2017 12:21 PM
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all3

Posts: 1397
Joined: 12/28/2011

Is it legal to resist an unlawful arrest? I know it's not adviseable but what are the legal aspects? What if the nurse would have kicked him in the crotch and run?



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 09/04/2017 12:35 PM
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HAPDigital

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Originally posted by: all3 Is it legal to resist an unlawful arrest? I know it's not adviseable but what are the legal aspects? What if the nurse would have kicked him in the crotch and run?

Depends on your state and the size of your cajones within said states that allow resisting unlawful arrest.
 09/04/2017 05:29 PM
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scostuart

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http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm



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 09/04/2017 08:18 PM
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MikeNeptune

Posts: 57
Joined: 07/31/2017

That cop was a very backward individual.  He probably never stopped to consider how many patients she had at that moment and what medications she prepared, etc.  he had tunnel vision, threw a tantrum, and will soon be out of a job.  Terrible cop. 



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 09/05/2017 05:44 AM
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johnnyboy

Posts: 10813
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It complicated to explain how to resist an illegal arrest. Essentially the difference boils down to passive vs active resistance. It is against the law to resist an arrest. It is unlawful for an officer to arrest someone without probable cause that the person committed or committing a crime. Passive resistance will not trigger new charges on a resisting without violence because you have the legal option of moving to dismiss the charge for lack of probable cause. Active resistance up charges the crime to resisting with violence. The lack of probable cause is not a legal defense to resisting with violence. It's still a jury issue as to whether the jury will find that the police conduct was so egregious that they will pardon him with a not guilty despite actual technical guilt.

This cop doesn't enforce the law, he is the law. He had that attitude. He was told he was making a huge mistake and he knew he was on video. He was conviced that he was going to find alcohol in unconscious patient. He was not going to walk away from a dui manslaughter just because some nurse with a supervisor wasn't getting it. So he bullied her. He was wrong for what he thought was the right reason. Lots of good cops do bad things for this reason. The cops gets very mixed signals from prosecutors and judges who use illegally obtained evidence knowing it was obtained illegally because they are trying punish wrongs even when the rules get in the way. Many cops think that they are the frontline and they must lie and cheat a little to help the bigger picture. It's utilitarianism. It allows the cop, the prosecution and even the judges the ability to be honest when possible and dishonest when necessary. The cops that get coached and mentored past these temptations tend to be the brass that get accused of not being real cops or not knowing what it takes. It's always a struggle.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 09/05/2017 05:56 AM
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RustyTruck

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If I read it correctly, the suspect of the chase was killed, and the unconscious patient was a victim, so it seems odd to me that he was hell bent on drawing blood.

But I think in a situation like this all you can do is call your attorney.

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 09/05/2017 06:35 AM
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Cole

Posts: 31481
Joined: 07/22/2003

She didn't make the decision, at a bare minimum they he arrested the wrong person.

But as always, the police will protect the police and nothing will happen as far as the law, then the department will pay out a civil fee like they always do.

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 09/05/2017 06:57 AM
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RustyTruck

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When you see these videos, you have to wonder how often these things happen and there's no record and the victim is ignored.



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 09/05/2017 09:23 AM
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johnnyboy

Posts: 10813
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When I say that the prosecutors and judges routinely rubber stamp non publicized events like all the time, I am not exaggerating. Consent is the cure to no warrant. A police officer can always testify that he obtained consent under oath and the judge will accept it. There could be very few ways possible someone who is unconscious could consent but the judge will make a finding that the cop wouldn't lie and a suspect would.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 09/05/2017 07:21 PM
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somebodyelse

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Flashback... 30 years ago. in Utah I get nudged off the road, slick, icy, the guy couldn't stop, hit me off a cliff. I get ambulanced to the hospital. I'm in the ER getting stiches and a cop come in and wants to run a DUI test on me. The Nurse says he can't stand up or walk at this time. So then the cop says that he has to give me a breath test or blood test. So I say, give me the breath test. The cop says He can't because of the O2 I've been breathing, Now I'm soaked with my own blood, I've had blood soaked clothes cut off me, and so I say to the cop, here take the shirt, or wipe some up off the gurney... He can't, he has to have it taken from a vein... The nurse told him he had to wait, he got nasty, started making threats, my license, jail time if I didn't co-operate, He hung around for a good 2 hours waiting for the doctors OK so that he could get a blood sample. On the accident statement he already knew from multiple witnesses that a different car lost control and started the accident, he didn't care... Like you said tunnel vision.. Probably the same cop..



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 09/06/2017 04:48 AM
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SlimyBritches

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"During the incident, Mr Payne suggested he would bring homeless patients to the university hospital, while taking "good" patients elsewhere, president of the ambulance service Mike Moffitt told Reuters."


http://www.independent.co.uk/n...est-alex-a7931601.html
 09/06/2017 05:24 AM
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StirfryMcflurry

Posts: 775
Joined: 08/17/2016

Originally posted by: somebodyelse Flashback... 30 years ago. in Utah I get nudged off the road, slick, icy, the guy couldn't stop, hit me off a cliff. I get ambulanced to the hospital. I'm in the ER getting stiches and a cop come in and wants to run a DUI test on me. The Nurse says he can't stand up or walk at this time. So then the cop says that he has to give me a breath test or blood test. So I say, give me the breath test. The cop says He can't because of the O2 I've been breathing, Now I'm soaked with my own blood, I've had blood soaked clothes cut off me, and so I say to the cop, here take the shirt, or wipe some up off the gurney... He can't, he has to have it taken from a vein... The nurse told him he had to wait, he got nasty, started making threats, my license, jail time if I didn't co-operate, He hung around for a good 2 hours waiting for the doctors OK so that he could get a blood sample. On the accident statement he already knew from multiple witnesses that a different car lost control and started the accident, he didn't care... Like you said tunnel vision.. Probably the same cop..

 

 

this explains alot. they should have kept you a little longer. seems like you're STILL focked up!

 



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 09/07/2017 01:25 PM
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johnnyboy

Posts: 10813
Joined: 07/22/2003

Those clowns make it so much harder for the good guys.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 09/07/2017 06:50 PM
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MikeNeptune

Posts: 57
Joined: 07/31/2017

Originally posted by: SlimyBritches "During the incident, Mr Payne suggested he would bring homeless patients to the university hospital, while taking "good" patients elsewhere, president of the ambulance service Mike Moffitt told Reuters." http://www.independent.co.uk/n...est-alex-a7931601.html

i think it's safe to say who that asshat voted for. 



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