Julian Carr had this to say when he dedicated a monument on UNC's campus in 1913 about the same time a prominent business man dedicated a monument at UVA.

 

That's the heritage that is being celebrated with these monuments and symbols.

It isn't the people that want to uncommemorate these monuments that are trying to erase or whitewash history.

That's the heritage

 

 

-------------------------
...

Praise god...

Well, that is certainly a damning piece of evidence. Allow me to JAQ off for a second.

If the Stars and Bars was once a symbol of Souther Pride to the majority (well, it still is according to a WGs survey), but was hijacked as a symbol for racisms by a minority, and therefore must be destroyed. Can the same logic be applied to the Statues?

If they were once a symbol of racism, but have evolved to be a symbol of Southern heritage, can they stay?

Or does original intent matter, but if it did, we'd be OK with the Stars and Bars. So confusing......

Southern Heritage?  Hallelujah we tried to seceede from the greatest nation in the world and got our a$$es whipped and had to rejoin.

That's about right.

Although you (and the rest of the liberals) have such a myopic view of this topic, and refuse to even consider other views, I'll will still throw this out there.

What if you traced your heritage back to the South, all the way back to the early 1800s, and you had ancestors who fought and died in the Civil War, and understood that slavery was just an objectified/symbol of the real underlying reason for the war (again, something the Left seems to gloss over) What if those Statues to you were a representation of your heritage, and not slavery? Then would you be OK with them staying? Or no, because only one opinion matters and the rest are not afforded to have different opinions, or be upset at their removal?

So much for "tolerance," huh?

Wow tell that to the freaks in California, maybe they can prevent embarrassment from tarnishing their stellar reputation

Just get a new symbol for your club obx.

What if you traced your heritage back to the South, all the way back to the early 1800s, and you had ancestors who suffered and died in slavery, and understood that slavery was the real underlying reason for the war (again, something the white nationalists would like to ignore). What if those Statues to the criminal perpetrators were a reminder of the slavery perpetrated upon your ancestors? Then would you be OK with them being moved? Or no, because only one opinion matters and the rest are not afforded to have different opinions?

Your idea of "tolerance" is that everyone else should "tolerate" what you see fit as a privileged white man.

How about you "tolerate" the fact that being confronted by these statues (memorializing people who chose to fight for the evil cause of human bondage) in the public square is an insult to them and their ancestors who were the victims?
You acknowledge no other "culture" or "heritage" than your own.



The suggestion is that these statues be moved to a place of historical context, such as museums and cemeteries. Keep it up and you may see more of them destroyed outright.



-------------------------
“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Well said, rusty. I think your empathy to all people is a valid counterpoint to obx's myopic tolerance.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

I've got a question for those that support the stars and bars, and the monuments:

Why are there monuments to the losing side? The South lost the war, and there are all these monuments to commemorate the LOSERS? (I'd like the trump supporters to answer, mostly because they must be sick of losing...)

Why not replace all the statues of confederate leaders with the Northern Generals who actually WON THE WAR!?


Meanwhile, in line with the Confederate flag/monument issue, the Atlanta Falcons are erecting a statue of QB Matt Ryan in downtown Boston to commemorate their Heritage in the last Super Bowl.

-------------------------
GOP:

Gaslight
Obstruct
Project

Thanks for pointing out the real Stars and Bars.



-------------------------
QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

The reason is because although the South lost the war, Lincoln knew they were still people fighting for American ideals. Quite frankly, its a show of tolerance, understanding, and empathy to allow the local populace to memoralize their dead and battle heros. The North didn't gloat, and afforded reprieval because we were brothers fighting brothers, sons fighting fathers, etc. It was a horrible time. Go ahead and research "how the Confederate was punished" and you'll find there isn't much. In fact, you'll find the losses were so great on both sides, the Union didn't feel the need to inflict more. It was a sign of respect and humility. Once upon a time, this country truly accepted freedom of beliefs and choice, and the Federal government had no inclination to stop the local populace from doing what they want, much less stop them from memoralizing their dead and war heros. Allowing them to erect and keep the statues is a true testament to why this country was so great. Unfortunately, that is completly lost on the Liberals. They don't understand what respect means, unless it follows their narrative.

Honestly, research the topic and compare that to today. Tell me if this is "progress".

Obie wrote - 'The South went to war because of ecomonic sanctions, unfair taxes, and not respecting State Rights. But if its easy for you some sum all of that up to "slavery", than I can't help you out there.'

Jesus H Christ obie - it is fucking written in the actual articles of secession. Mississippi for one - 'Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.'

Quit being a fucking idiot..

-------------------------
QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

Edited: 08/17/2017 at 12:49 PM by wtf

That doesn't actually answer the question.

obx2 actually answered the question.

Fail.

Quit being a fucking idiot, wtf!



-------------------------
The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Let me ask you this. Why do you think the Southwas upset about losing slaves? Was it becasue they were white supramicist assholes? Or was it because, at that time, they were the "machines" that drove their economy? Imagine getting a new tax imposed (which was only 3%, and it caused a revolt, imagine now-a-days, but I digress), on top of economic sanctions, and then your means of produciton is taken. Not only is more of your income taken away, but so is your ability to produce, and you are getting ecomomic sanctions imposed, by people who don't even live in your area, and are not effected by their decision.

That sad fact is, taking into context of that time period, slaves were the machines that drove the South's economy. The South went to war, to preserve their means. Unfortunately, that is objectivied as slavery, and it is now taken out of context,  and analyzed through today's "norms," and vilianized by people who have no fcking clue what they are talking about.

That is pretty much the definition of white supremacy. 
Yeah, it was immensely beneficial to the economic well being of the ruling aristocrats in the south and that was probably why they came up with all the supremacist rationalizations for what they were doing. But you can't just ignore their stated rational. Plus, I don't see how their reliance on slaves for their economic prosperity makes their cause against the north just.

-------------------------
...

Well that justifies the war. The planter aristocracy didn't want to lose their cheap machines.

-------------------------
...

Obie wrote - 'The South went to war because of ecomonic sanctions, unfair taxes, and not respecting State Rights. But if its easy for you some sum all of that up to "slavery", than I can't help you out there.'

Thanks for furthering what we already know, that not only are you a fat cocksucking fucking coward, you are stupid beyond belief...

-------------------------
QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

Yes - slaves were the labor that drove the south's economy and the south was going to hold onto this by any means, thus the war that almost drove this country apart. Whether or not they were white supremacists assholes is irrelevant. The fact is that slaves were treated as 'property' and not 'humans'. These were people forced into labor against their will.

There is nothing taken out of context. Treating people like that is abhorrent - it was then and it is now, and thankfully the North called the south out on it and whooped their ass to free 'human beings' that deserve the same rights as every other human. Just because it was the 'norm' then does not mean it was right. And it was not right, simple as that.

-------------------------
QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

I do not disagree with anything you wrote. People also forget/don't realize is the North had slaves, too. For over a couple hundred years. But the North became industrialized faster than the South, and the North was becoming urbanized faster. By the time of the mid 1800s, they barely had a need for slave labor. Not true with the South. It truly was a dark time in our history. What people can't forget is it was done out of necessity, for there were no other options available at the time. It would be nice if people understood that, and stop this fcking madness.

I would also like to remind everyone, these Confederate soldiers are considered American Veterans. It was signed into law. Be careful on what you're blindly supporting....

Edited: 08/17/2017 at 02:16 PM by obx2

"Done out of necessity, no other option available" WTF! The necessity of what? to make lots of money?

-------------------------
"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

to farm, and be independent.....and yes, unfortunately, there we greedy bastards lusting after money back then, too 

Independent is taking care of yourself, not living off the hard work of slaves

-------------------------
"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

Back then there was limited, if any, machinery. People lived on farms, and off the land, and needed slaves to help. I would be willing to bet most of them treated their slaves fairly. I'm not denying their were fcktards who also abused them. I'd be willing to be that was more prevalent on greedy bastard side. Slavery was horrible, but it's truly a sad travesty to condemn and entire culture because of the need for it, and remove all symbols of said culture because of it. Time to tear down the pyramids if you are so myopic in your beliefs regarding slavery. Hell, time to tear down any statue of our founding fathers while we're at it. They are guilty of the same exact thing 

"treated their slaves fairly" are you familiar with the term "oxymoron" "It was a necessity" A necessity for what? They so badly needed those big plantation homes? They would starve if they didn't grow enough cotton to eat? There were a lot of people in the south who survived without slaves, they weren't a necessity to them. Our founding fathers didn't fight a war to destroy our country in order to keep their slaves.

-------------------------
"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

I need a slave to help in my yard. Come on Obx volunteer, I'll treat you fairly. SMH these are the same people that hate paying taxes because they don't want their money to go to "lazy people that don't pull their own weight." "A need for it" buwahahaha then he says he's not racist. WTF

Slaves were property. They were the machines. People take care of their stuff. I realize this is a touchy subject, but it was the reality of the times. A time none of us are capable of relating to, but the info is out there to learn about, and learn from.

Scom brings up a good point about the early 1900s. I have no sense of understanding, or empathy for how people of color were treated back then. The KKK is, and always were, a bunch of fcking clowns. 

So, yeah let's have monuments that represent this. The Confederacy was a treasonous rebellion that cost half a million American lives all because they wanted human property. Nobody "needed" slaves. Quit trying to defend keeping these monuments. It makes you look more insensitive by the minute. FYI removing a statue does not remove history. A statue is an actual piece of property, or stuff. All replaceable. Also saying slaves were treated fairly. That's the stupidest crap I've ever heard. Just being a slave is unfair. Nothing "fairly" about it.

i didn't say they were all treated fairly. You obviously have no clue about history, and those "traitors" are recognized by this country as Vets. Where you at with the pyramids? You wanna tear them down, too? What else do you want to censor and remove, HAP? Any particular books you'd like to burn, too? I thought you were against fascism? 

The traitors were recognized as vets to try and heal the country. If they would have gone back to farms and STFU all would be OK. But some still think the blacks should be enslaved, some think they should celebrate their wrong, losing cause by honoring their leaders with statues. Some think "the south will rise again" Many passed laws to keep the black man down and disadvantaged. Why should I care about the pyramids? The Egyptians didn't try to destroy our country.

-------------------------
"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

As usual the poor died in a war to advance the economic interest of the rich. I doubt anyone in here has any great animus towards the individual soldiers of the South.

However the overarching reason for the war was as you say"states rights" specifically that right being too maintain other humans in the condition of slavery for their own economic and sexual benefit. 

Or society generally and individual communities specifically have decided that monuments celebrating the participants in this endeavor are no longer a welcome part of their communities or institutions. I am not sure why it is astounding they have decided to remove them or heard any reason why they should not be able to do so if they wish. 

They idea even some slaves were treated"fairly" is absurd. Treated well enough that they didn't die so another one wouldnt need to be bought ,of course. That however is a million miles from fair and you might want to walk that statement back. 

Or being a generational lifetime welfare mooch

not sure what you're trying to say there cheater. Being on welfare your whole life is not being independent. sucks for those people. Sucks for the taxpayers also.

-------------------------
"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

Please read slower, the point is coming from you libs who vehemently protect your voting class, yet espouse indepndence. You cats thrive off dependence and victimhood. Your side will be humiliated once again by twisting truth, outright lying and being on the wrong side of common sense.

How could I be humiliated by your twisting truth, outright lying and being on the wrong side of common sense?

-------------------------
"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

The millionaire Plantation caste went to war because the North was not respecting their State's right to chain, sell, whip, murder and force to work for free members of the human race based upon their idea that they were part of a superior race and negroes were inferior. Thats your heritage and mine. Thats not the small part. Its the biggest part of the antebellum south. The symbols of the south's racism have been revived for the new brand of internet white supremacy. You are lying to yourself if you cannot admit this. You cannot lie to me about it.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

Your defense of slavery is despicable, and it reveals your utter lack of character.

You may keep shaking your fist at the sky and trying to get someone to listen to your tale of the poor misunderstood southern kidnappers and rapists, but you can't stop the world from sweeping that bullshit to the side. You're losing and it pisses you off, and get ready to lose some more jethro.

-------------------------
“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Lee and the rest of the traitors might well have been hanged but for the charity of the United States.

Perhaps it was a mistake to spare them. My people were with Sherman at Atlanta, he knew how to deal with slavers and their sympathizers.

-------------------------
“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

At the end of the day, Obx- the majority of Americans disagree with the statues being in a public place, and since its a public place- the public decides.

You can have your opinion, as can anyone else, but the majority makes the move.

I remember smokers complaining when the public smoking amendment passed with 70% majority or something like that.. but they got the heave ho regardless.

There may have been a small crowd of Alt-Righters holding tiki torches rallied around the General in Virginia, but you could take that crowd times 10,000 and it wouldnt even make a dent on the amount of Americans who feel they need to be moved elsewhere.

-------------------------


Zzzzzzz.. Zzzzzzz.. Braaaaaapp!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

I'm over it. You guys lack reading comprehension. I never defended slavery anywhere in my post. The public didn't decide anything. Unless someone can show me/tell me these statues were voted to removed, then spare me the BS. I just read the the Bucs are helping finance the removal of the memorial in front of the Hillsboro courthouse. A fucking memorial to the dead soldiers who didn't come back. These "traitors" you speak off. Funny how the people of that time period, America herself, didn't consider them traitors after the war. And here come you self righteous assholes, 150 years later, changing things and white washing history. A fcking memorial to the dead, is now also considered racist. The flood gates are wide open. Congratulations you fcking fascist, ignorant assholes. You've become the very thing you say your against. 

Up next, the burning of Huck Fin, because it has the word n*gger in it. Whoops, there goes this post now.....

I'm done, see you at the barricades, as that peacenick Rusty so eloquently put it.

You can't see that calling slavery a "Necessity" isn't defending it? These aren't memorials to dead soldiers, these are glorifying the leaders of the Confederacy.

-------------------------
"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

I'm OK with Huck Finn

-------------------------
"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

Obx who then decided to have the monuments removed?

Yep. If the public agreed to put them up, shouldn't the public have the choice to take them down?



-------------------------
I was right.

"The public" had no say, white people did. There was no voting. If there was no blacks could vote. I hope you're being sarcastic.

Calm down man, I play this game the long way.

-------------------------
I was right.

Mr. Carr paid for a campus building, which is named for him.  

Yep!

You lose the game the long way too.

Good on ya.

-------------------------
The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Edited: 08/18/2017 at 04:57 AM by Fish Killer

loose?

I always heard Nazi pricks were dumb as a sack of manure, thanks for the proof.



-------------------------
I was right.

Like I said, if there was a vote held, and the majority wanted them removed, then so be it. There was no vote/input from the public. It was just done by order of the mayor.  In fact, the 4 more removed in Baltimore were done at night. Fcking cowards........

You now ignore reality. Cowards want monuments of traitors and slavers.

You mean like this one? You litteraly suppor the actions of fools, who are ignorant of history, and don't even know what the fck they are doing. They are just doing it like a bunch of rabid freaks.

I'll use the liberal tactic of the false equivalent. You support these fools who are ignorant of history, therefore you yourself must be ignorant of history. And, one more time, America never considered them traitors,  untill now. In fact thet are legaly Veterans. But I wouldnt expect someone who is ingnorant of history such as yourself to grasp that. You literaly are supported the removal of statues of Vetrans....sit on that one for a second HAP.  

So the elected representative of a city, with the power to do so, decided to remove some City owned property? The horror! 

I have my doubts that there are riots in the streets and massive protests against this action from the locals. In fact most people do not care one way or another. A vocal minority want to see it gone and a much smaller vocal minority would like to see them stay.

If I lived in a community that decided to have them removed. I would be angru if they decided to remove them at any other time then at night. Why create a reason for a bunch of Nazi flag wavers and black clad morons to crawl out from under their rocks and descend on your community.

I do not support it any way mobs defacing or tearing down public property. If you want something gone organise people to put pressure on your city councilman, mayor or whomever .

Also specifically with the civil war monuments I personally would like to see them go to a museum or civil war site perhaps. However if the community wanted to melt then down and make a peace monument or whatever, that's their right. 

Never said I support illegal removal of statues. Not once...

I did not see one person supporting illegal removal of statues. Based on obies comments, he has confused his mind with what my and others message/opinion actually is and has reverted to labels, none of which i am, but call me whatever you want to make yourself feel better, makes no diff to me...



-------------------------
QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay

Yep, ripping the statues down is wrong and the people who did it will be charged. Do I understand why they did it? Yes, 100%. Knee jerk reaction seldom end well.

I've never even seen a Confederate statue, are they any in Central Florida?

-------------------------
I was right.

I don't direct any labels to you, personally, WTF. The only two people I am labeling are Rusty, and Jdbman, because of their support of fascist tactics and/or being guilty of performing them.

I am OK with you supporting the legal removal of these statues. Doesn't mean it doesn't piss me off, to a great extent. The point I was trying to make about the peace statute is, these are the people who want them removed. Yet they are ignorant of history. Like I said, and I would love for someone to do a "boots on the ground" type of investigation,  I'd be willing to bet most in support of removal can't even name one battle, much less the dates of the civil war without Googleing it.

What I am not OK with, is the support of what the left wing terrorists did in VA, in repsonse to a legal, excerscise of the 1st amendmant. I am not OK with being labeled a "Nazi sympathizer" because I am really just supporting the 1st amendmant (even though I've said over and over again these guys are clowns). I am also not OK with the pass given to these terrorists by the media, and therefore gobbled up, and regurtitated by the useful idiots.

Most of the people with stars and bars flying from their truck couldn't tell you anything about the civil war either.

You don't have to be a civil war school to be justified in wanting them give. You just have to know the basics: The war was fought to preserve the right for one race to own another. 

 

And young obx I actually agree with most of your second paragraph. I support the right of morons to speak freely showing the world what morons they are. This could be Nazi antifa or whomever. In Charlottesville both sides came armed for battle and they got it. Sadly one side stopped it up from battling each other to the murder ofinnocent people 

 

Thank you for proving my point. Although it may be easier to understand it from such a myopic stance, the events that lead to the South not being allowed to secede from the Union are way more complex that that. I tried to list some of the events leading up to in, in the context of that time. But then I was labeled as "justifying slavery" and my attempt flew right over the heads of the myopics.

Most of the people flying the flag aren't doing so because of their knowledge of the Civil War, they are doing it as a symbol of their culture. Just like the rainbow flag flown by the LGBT community. However, the ones condemeing it, don't even know why they are flying it, and falsely eqaute them to treason. Its a damn shame for an entire culutre to be villianized, and removed because of the ignorance of others. This is your vision of America?

I don't understand. What point have I proved?

8 years of oblama and now your panties are up your ass about ffiinnnggg statues, newsflash nobody cares except you pussies

The Southern heritage pussies?

Would the vote be fair? There is 61% white and 12% black in this country. Doubt the people the vote really matters too have a chance. Even your "I give up" speeches are riddled with privelege. I'm telling you, do yourself a favor and study civil rights, the flipping of parties since Lincoln, civil war, post civil war, civil rights movement, comparison of "war on drugs" to "opioid epidemic," implicit bias, unconscious racial bias, affirmative action, and just read and talk to real people. Not the alt right Breitbart fools that make up "facts" like the kkk are democrats and Hillary's mentor is a KKK demon.

This article about a recent NPR pole may surprise you. Seems the liberal media is just whipping their audience into frenzy. How about 44% of African Americans favor leaving the statues in place? https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/trump-is-more-in-touch-than-you-think/

Cheat must be into the hootch, he's babbling.

-------------------------
“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Then blame the people from your culture that use it as a symbol for their bigotry and continuing calls for war against the USA.

I absolutely do. I said so in the very first post I made on this topic. These guy are fcking douche bags ruinging it.

You guys watch the Dukes of Hazzard? Do you consider them or the show racist? Of course not (at least I hope not), yet the drive a car named the General Lee with a big ol Confederate flag on it. I can't think of a finer example of the other side of the spectrum (as in, different than the fcking WSDs).

wbsponger - you've prove my point of a lot of people not truly understanding the events that lead up to the Civil War by saying "You just have to know the basics: The war was fought to preserve the right for one race to own another" 

Slavery was State rights, independance, pissed off about taxes, economic sanctions, objectified. (Did you guys know the South had strict regulations on who they were allowed to sell cotton too? The North needed it so badly, they sanctioned them from selling it overseas. Is that American?) Its fcking horrible, slavery in itself, but to say "the war was fought to preserve the right for one race to another" is way too much of a simplification and dishonest at best.

BTW, here is a decent write up of the times, pertaining to slavery:

http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactivities/presentations/timeline/expref/slavery/

Its fcking horrible, slavery in itself, but to say "the war was fought to preserve the right for one race to another" is way too much of a simplification and dishonest at best.

Who fucking cares, it was 160 years ago.

You've never even seen these statues you are arguing for, have you?

-------------------------
I was right.

Obx It is a simplification but an honest and mainly accurate one. As people have pointed to you can look at the states declarations of causes they speak explicitly about maintaining the right to own slaves as a primary reason for succession amongst some other lesser arguments. 

Yes there were some other reasons mixed in there, but the driving factor was preserving their economic way of life via slavery. You seem to be preoccupied with proving this distinction that makes no difference. 

Please read, note the treatment/position of the North pertaining to Slavery both before, during and after. Please also note the actual reason they were freed:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2967.html

"My favorite Civil War era monuments are the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments."
David Tanenhaus, Professor of History and Law, UNLV

There is a really big confederate monument in front of the Palatka courthouse.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

So this is just heritage? So the question is, why would someone want to claim traitors and losers as their heritage?

-------------------------
"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

These monuments are not about heritage they are about saying F U to civil rights progress.

So this is just heritage? So the question is, why would someone want to claim traitors and losers as their heritage?

 

 

Yes, why is that? Is ANY Celebration of Americans winning is  OK and just the memorials to the loser NOT OK?? You start letting the losers dictate what we perserve and we have to tear down the Spanish fort at St. Augustine, those loser Indians built it with their blood and then the loser Spanish lost it to America, Plymouth rock, All those bullshit founding Fathers memorials built over the graves of Native Americans I guess is OK because we actually won those wars. Dang if Texas wasn't half Mexican already we may have give back the Alamo, that symbol of land theft from the rightful owners, BUT wait, we won that war so those memorials are OK.

Why the hell are American Indians all high and damn mighty about Geronimo or sitting Bull??? They fricken LOST... Lets put a statue to Andrew Jackson right at the start to the trail of tears, WE WON THAT WAR... We should get to celebrate our victories. AND I think there is a statue somewhere of sitting Bull, tear that loser statue down, they don't get to memorialize losers in America.

There are some pictographs that the loser native americans painted all over the southwest, Sorry but we don't want the modern day natives burdened with these losers and their ideas as a heritage. They should just Move on, embrace the winning culture and quit bemoaning the fact that a modern society and higher culture has supplanted their loser one.

 

-------------------------

Another person that doesn't get it. Did you even look at the chart above? White people bought cheap ass statues, yes very cheaply made, and put them up in their towns to rebel against civil rights. Plain and simple. The monuments are not about winning or losing or memorializing great people, they're about hate. That's it. Nothing about winners or losers and quite frankly it's about sore losing.

Yep, doesn't get it. I'm not talking about buildings, forts that were there and have been there. I'm plenty good with a simple memorial to the common solidier who just fought for his home and family. But a statue to glorify a traitorous leader, on public land? Nope! The Indians were fighting to defend their homes, a noble cause. Can't you see the difference?

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"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

Go right now and try and pull your shit in Texas!

Bet you won't like the outcome!

http://occupydeplorables.com/p...mess-with-our-statues/

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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

The Germans removed all of their Nazi and related statues, then replaced them with statues of the victims. They didn't rewrite history, they rectified it.

If this truly was about heritage not hate, shouldn't some statues of civic heroes from the Civil War be included with the Rebel soldier statues?



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I was right.

YOU don't have the right to tear down anything!

If you want something removed there are PROPER ways legally to do it!

That would include a vote from ALL of the people...not just your opinion.

MORON!

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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

It's also illegal to display may symbols and hand gesture there. Germany is one of the most free places I've been. Never bothered anyone. Only idiots that want to recreate the holocaust. Nazis should not have rights. Their goal is to exterminate other races. Fuck em. All you Nazi sympathizer happy with an ISIS USA group? "They're non-violent."

All you Nazi sympathizer happy with an ISIS USA group? "They're non-violent."

I asked Johnny that and got some jumbled bullshit reply.

They have no answer for it.

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I was right.

I have an answer asshole!

I have no issue withy ANY citizens RIGHT to speak whatever BULLSHIT they want to...just so long as they aren't hurting anyone else physically with their BULLSHIT!

It's called 1str Amendment RIGHTS!

ASSHOLE!

What part of EVERYONE gets the same rights don't you understand?!?!

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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

If that's true why you so down on people vocalizing their thoughts on Nazis? Again, you contradict yourself. just because we want nazis to be banned in the USA doesn't mean it is going to happen. Just like Nazis vocalizing white supremacy and death to Jews. Something tells me secretly you wish death to Jews.

I'm allowed to VOCALIZE my opinion too!

Just as you are!

The problem starts when you want to shut up those people that YOU disagree with!

I never said I wanted to shut your face physically...that's what you wanted to do to me!

Asshole!

Better quit your lying!

Soon you will be on the same pathological lying ass level as Coleslaw!


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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

I have no issue withy ANY citizens RIGHT to speak whatever BULLSHIT they want to...just so long as they aren't hurting anyone else physically with their BULLSHIT!


That's not the point. The point is the fact that one of the Nazi used a car to kill another human being and not only do you have no issue with the murder, you have gone to great lengths to make up lies and bullshit about the murderer.

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I was right.

That 'murderer's' agenda is funded by your pal and best friend George Soros.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Qr7TnWG74

So that makes YOU complicit!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/...-in-charlotte.616492/





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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Edited: 08/20/2017 at 07:57 PM by Fish Killer

You posted one lie with no remorse, then you did it again.

I guess you've given up on that whole Christian stuff, huh?

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I was right.

George Soros funds BOTH sides of the street asshole!

Better wake the fick up!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/...-in-charlotte.616492/

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/...emocratic-candidates/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.co...t-and-latest-protests/

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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Interesting question Hap.

Would it be OK for an ISIS march in Virginia with the participants holding "anti-Christian" signs? What if none had arrest records and were open carrying AR's?

It might be legal but would they survive the march?

The only reason they wouldn't survive the march would be because you and your assholes would show up to remove their 1st Amendment rights!

Fact!

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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

All of this is fine-and-dandy, 150 years later, but, , , , what you have to understand is that a lot of the "southern" mind-set was not so much about their "feelings and thoughts", but what they, and everybody else, was taught, , , , that the blacks were, plain and simple, inferior. How much of your today's life is based upon what you have been taught as basic truth? Think about it.

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Dora Hates You

all3 Posts: 1366 Joined: 12/28/2011

So this is just heritage? So the question is, why would someone want to claim traitors and losers as their heritage?

 

This is what I was replying to when I posted about the losing Native Americans. They lost their land, their lives, their heritage, AS ALL3 asked, why would somebody claim a loser as their heritage?

The Forts were built there by slaves to protect the slave trade and enable the spanish to subjegate the continent. I would think it should be the first thing we tear down...

And sore losers? I guess the native Americans are good with it now?

The slaves were losers if you think about it.. Are the decendants of slaves sore losers now?

Your chart about monuments don't say where they were built or what they represent. Is there a statue to the founder of the boy scouts included? How about a statue for Babe Ruth that fat racist bastard?

Last I heard you Nazis were desecrating graves and statues of Catholic saints those paragons of Evil...

there are civil war forts all over the south, build specifically for keeping slavery intact. let me know when you start to tear those down and scattering the pieces because until you do so you are hypocrites... You know you should build public housing on each fort site just to show everyone how sorry you are about the whole slavery thing...

I guess tearing up all the railroad tracks west of St.Louis is the only way to make it up to the Native Americans that we killed and displaced out that way...

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so you don't know why they claim these traitors as their heritage?

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"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

so you don't know why they claim these traitors as their heritage

 

I assume that this was the last memorable thing that happened in their family. They proudly put on the uniform and marched out to war.

They lost and the survivors went home in rags to burnt out hovels, they have been living hand to mouth and struggling for a living for 4 to 5 generations.

They have served in WWl, WWll, the Korean war, the vietnam war, every battle and hot spot the US sent them since then, they are in the middle east and are members of our military to this very day.

They have erected memorials to their dead, they remember the sacrifices of those who served, even the ones who lost.

Lets go tear down the Vietnam memorial, we were the agressors there and we lost there, WTF are we remembering or celebrating with that memorial?

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Former slaves did pretty well by comparison, right?

The Vietnam Memorial is to the everyday soldier who fought and died for the USA. Robt. E. Lee and jefferson davis were leaders of a group that fought to destroy America. Why is it so hard to understand the difference?

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"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"

He funds YOUR side of the street....Coleslaw!

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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Did he buy the guy a car? Did he buy his plane ticket? Does the dude's mom get an all expense paid cruise to the Med?

Have you ever once thought about the stupid shit you post?

Actually, have you ever thought about anything at all?



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I was right.

Jason Kesstler is the organizer of Alt-Right...and completely organized the protest in Virginia!

He's directly from George Soros!

That's right - Kessler didn't start his white nationalist activism until after Donald Trump won the White House. Prior to that he participated in the far left/socialist Occupy Wall Street movement as noted by the far-left, George Soros-funded Southern Poverty Law Center.

MORON!







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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Now Soros owns the Southern Poverty Law Center? lol

FK<-----Crackpot

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I was right.

Who said he OWNED it?

Idiot!

He doesn't have to OWN it......

All he has to do is FUND it!

Which he most assuredly does...asshole!

http://www.discoverthenetworks...ubCategory.asp?id=1237

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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.