I don't understand this one. Why not arm them? Curious what the vets on here think.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/22/politics/pentagon-does-not-support-arming-all-military-personnel/index.html

 

I can see some issues. These are hotheaded 18 year old kids, and some are, shall we say, not candidates for higher education.

I would look at exposure/risk. Recruiting stations? Armed to the teeth.

Peeling potatoes in the back of a mess hall on a big base? No need for gun play.

Sailors on shore leave? That's a tough one. Not sure.

Guard houses and security details? Should be armed already.


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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

The Pentagon makes the decision, but Obama gets the blame?

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I was right.

Who said anything about Obama?

Quite the knee jerk defensive statement there, Cole.

 

senior member should be armed.

Nope, it's conditioning.

Everything is Obama's fault, why should this be any different?



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I was right.

What say you obx?

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

I don't understand why they are not armed. At least allow them to be, if they want to. I mean, these are trained soldiers, that went through boot camp, were trained how to handle firearms in a safe manner, and are sworn to protect us against threats, both foreign and internal. Why not givet them means?

You had mentioned something about hot head 18yr olds, but civilian 18yrs can arm themselves, why not allow 18yr olds, that have gone through training, arm themselves?

I don't know, like I said, I just don't get it. However, I have never served in the Military, so I am not smart on the culture/rules, which is why I was curious as to what the vets thought.

Cole - Everything is not Obama's fault. Every single thing that our government is doing, is our own fault, for not holding our elected officials accountable for their actions, regardless of that little letter at the end of their name. Instead of holding them accountable, we are allowing them to divide us, and conquer us, because of that little letter at the end of their name.

Soldiers are training with weapons on a target range but combat troops are normally trained in simulated environments. Arming the top 2 highest ranking recruiters (sick days...etc.) and providing training for reaction to threats in a domestic/civilian environment would be a good idea. I would say that at least 60% of all corps are support troops and are only "qualified" on the range so arming all personnel is a bit over the top. Yes, I am a Vet and I met some people in the Military that needed constant adult supervision and could not be trusted with a weapon. Knifes caused the most problems on my ship. I glad only the Master at Arms (on-board police) were armed.

This is all taking the long way round the basic problem.

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Wiki wiki

What is the basic problem, Wookie?

RocketSurf, I think you naild it. Don't have to arm everyone, but at least have someone armed (ie the higher ranking members) and train them for the scenerio(s) you are trying to protect from.

I just don't understand why this isn't embraced by the Pentagon. Not sure if this true or not, but I've read some things were the suggestion is for personell to not wear their uniforms.

I watched a young marine get his ass handed to him after trying to take on an entire bar full of people.

The Marines make robot killing machines, I can see the Pentagon's point.

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I was right.

There you have it, people. All Marines are "robot killing machines" because Cole met a Marine that was an asshole one time. I'm pretty sure that most of the people that agree with you on most of your views probably read your statement above and said, "yeah....we're just going to pretend he didn't say that....", because it is stupid.

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"The government who robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul," - George Bernard Shaw

“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f—k things up.” - Barack Obama

“End of quote. Repeat the line.” - wise words from Joe Biden

I've known lots of marines.If they were grunts then sure they were capable of "robot killing machine mode". The job. A little bit of it came out when they were drunk, yes they did act like drunken assholes.

Doesn't mean they are assholes in life or on the Internets.
Mostly great men.

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

He didn't mention Obama, this could be an honest discussion (until proven otherwise).

It's a legitimate topic until someone mentions Hitler.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

This is an example of a topic that appeals to simple people and gets a knee jerk reaction, but the reality presents difficulties.

18 y/o civilians can have a rifle. They cannot buy a handgun nor carry it.

I've known a few marines, and they weren't known for good judgement. A blanket law or rule that "they" can our should be openly armed has a host of problems.

Better start with security people and recruiters.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

I think an Marine recruiter carrying a sidearm is a more imposing figure, more representative of the job, sure why not, as long as he is properly trained for the situation as RocketSurf said.
But I don't think arming everyone makes anyone safer.
Quite the contrary.

Most military people have no need of a weapon in their daily duties.
While I was required to remain qualified with M-16 and 38, I only actually carried on on duty (outside of training) for one night in 10 yrs.

Most service is like that.


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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

I think unarmed recruiters in uniform make an attractive target. The mere publicity that they are armed has some deterrent value.

Terrorists like soft, easy targets. We've seen some recent examples of what happens where they go up against professional police and get shot before the first "Allah Akbar".

I've only been on the base a couple times, but aren't the MP's at Patrick gate armed already?

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Sure, gate guard are armed, their explicit duty is security.

I don't think this one attack on recruiters means they are especially a target, at any more risk than anyone else in uniform, but maybe I am wrong about that.
I'll leave that decision to those with the responsibility, knowledge and authority.

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

But didn't the guy just shoot up the recruiting office with no injuries, then drive over to an actual military facility and kill the soldiers? Weren't they armed as gate security?


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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Treat idiots with guns and hero fantasies like they're idiots with guns and hero fantasies.

Neither do I, and I was an armed sentry in the US Navy.

Looks like they are coming around to the idea.

http://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-chief-gives-nod-arm-more-troops-u-203224359.html

I did some work at the Cherry Point Marine base in NC and was actually surprised that they didn't carry weapons (other than the gate guards).

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I was right.

..

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His point is they aren't known for good judgement. They need close supervision. These aren't Chesty Puller's marines.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Marines are conditioned to fight and never give up, even when things get waayy over their heads.

Like I said, there must be some reason the Brass doesn't want to arm their peace time soldiers.



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I was right.

Yes, most (if not all) military bases have armed guards. To me the question should be directed more to recruiting stations and reserve centers.

Personally I don't see a problem with recruiters carrying a sidearm. They're generally older and more mature that the average recruit. At a minimum, provide a safe (small armory) with weapons.

As to reserve centers, stupidity takes over. Do you realize how many police officers are reservists? Legally speaking, these individuals are strongly encouraged (at least at my agency) to conceal carry off duty however not allowed to carry on a federal installation. Hell, I've actually arrested a reservist from my reserve center. And yes, I know a few of you have probably seen police cruisers at reserve centers. Technically they're breaking the law.