Update, , , , (We got a new 2016 Honda Civic EX in August). 2 liter, 4 cylinder, VTEC Earth Dreams engine. I've had to make the trip to Deltona from Suntree lately, 144 mile round-trip; ECON Mode, I95, 46, 415, etc. Got back into the driveway last night: 46.8 miles per gallon round-trip (had seen up to 47.2 on the read-out). I am pleased.

Cruise control settings: I95 72MPH, 46 56MPH. 415 45 - 55MPH.

Oh, and, , , , daily driving on Wickham Road, US1, Pineda, A1A, etc, with no ECON mode, averages 32.5 with all of the stop-and-go.

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Dora Hates You

Edited: 01/29/2017 at 12:07 PM by dingpatch

impressive

wow
what's the EPA number on that car?

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

31 "city", 41 "highway", 35 "combined" The lady I work with has the '16 EX-L with the 1.5L Turbo and she has been getting 48MPG!! She always has the ECON mode engaged and primarily drives I95 from 192 and then 520 to the Cocoa library (Cocoa water tower area).



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Dora Hates You

Back in the 09's I had a '90 CRX HF model.  It routinely got 46-48 in mixed driving. If you had told me back then that kind of mileage would be considered expeptional in 2017 I would have laughed out loud. 

But, that little CRX had a 1.5 liter engine that gave out only 62 horse power. The '16 Civic has a 2 liter that produces 158 horses.

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Dora Hates You

Yes indeed. And if I recall 3rd, 4th and 5th were all overdrive gears which made driving interesting. Around town it was pretty manageable but out on the highway at speed if you wanted to pull out to pass you had to have planned ahead for the time it would take to achieve passing speed or you'd really piss off those coming up on you in the left lane. 

 

Anyway, my point is that I thought we would be further along the road to maximizing efficiency by now given what we have achieved long ago.  It seems like most of the technological gains achieved over the past 20-30 years gave done toward satisfying our desire for more power which one can argue is not necessary.  I would think that as a country we would see maximizing efficiency as one of crucial priority areas of emphasis toward achieving energy independence.  Then again, for better of worse, I guess the free market makes that call for us.

 

 

My long-ago Geo Prizm (which I think is still in use somewhere around Rockledge) did about 40 mpg when driven from Portland, Oregon to Melbourne in 2000.  It was a Toyota Corolla hatchback, assembled at the joint Toy-GM plant in Fremont, California that made my current Vibe.

I had a '79 or '80 honda civic with a 1200 cc CVCC motor that got 40mpg way back when.

It was a deathtrap.  

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Every car has a sweet spot for mpg. Removing surf racks and maintaining tire pressure are huge helpers at highway speed. My old 1978 Datsun easily got 40 mpg hwy when the speed limits were 55.

Cool charts. I remember back in the 90s when friends were getting 40+mpg in their Honda CRX's. Probably just a function of weight and aerodynamics, but it's interesting how we're just now re-approaching those numbers on some similar cars. I'd rather be in an accident in today's cars, though.

How you drive is a HUGE determinant, too. I've gotten 36mpg on an extremely responsible, yet dull, highway drive, and 6mpg around Palm Beach International Raceway.

Anyone have an enormous Yukon or Suburban or something? What do those average in the real world?

I have a little 5 speed AWD 2000-CRV it gets around, Hondas rule!

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I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

It would seem, by extrapolation of those two examples^^,

that we would have some functional 100 mpg vehicles.

I know the physics argues against it, but still...

sigh. 

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10 cars that get equivalent of 100 miles per gallon

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

^nice but a little dated

I wasn't up on MPG-e so I wiki-ed it (embarrasing right?)

and about 1/2 way down the page they have a 2016 list of EVs and their MPG-es.

Pretty impressive, 29 vehicles, 11 manufacturers repesenting most of the big name automakers

all at or around 100 MPG-e.

Getting there!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equivalent

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I got about 19 mpg hwy in my old 5.7L 4WD Suburban, if I coaxed it. Was afraid to drive much faster than 70 because of the rollovers, and I had some of those bad Firestone tires for a while. Loved it when refilling the 44-gallon tank at $4/gallon!

I got 30 mpg hwy once in my 1986 5.0L Camaro, with 5-speed. At 70 mph, barely 2000 rpm. Decent aerodynamics, so not working much harder than idling!

My VW TDI Wagon only gets about 32 mpg around town. Aerodynamics are not great (surf racks don't help). Its sweet spot is probably 60 mph, but I have nowhere to drive long distances at that speed.

At 70 mph on I-95, it gets over 45 mpg, but I'm typically doing 80 and getting around 40.

I'm surprised we don't see more ECVT's (electronic continuously-variable transmissions); they've been around forever.

So, , , , what we know from the foregoing, , , , and this; the CRX has a "curb" weight of 1967 LBs and our Civic has a curb weight of 2795 LBs. Given "all-things-equal" in regard to mileage being same/similar, and considering the big differences between weight and horse power, , , , what would a "2017" CRX do in regard to mileage, with current tech and a 100 HP power plant?

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Dora Hates You

The science makes sense on them, but man are they just gross to drive. Ever driven a Nissan with a CVT? There is no fun factor at all. That, and, from what I've heard, when a CVT on a Nissan breaks, it's so pricey to repair that sometimes the owner just junks the car.

The Civic has a CVT

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Dora Hates You

Another electric venture:  

Honda Cites Growing Electric Car Demand for Hitachi Venture

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-07/honda-hitachi-car-unit-to-ally-as-vehicle-tech-push-accelerates

About real world Suburban mileage, my '92 gets 15 mpg regularly (mixed driving) and 13 towing.  

Her service as a work vehicle has long since ceased and now she's purely a recreational vehicle.  

Ahhhh, retirement.  

Her, not me.  

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Just drove from Suntree to Lake Nona: Wickham Road - I95 - 528 - 417. Cruise set at 71 on I95 and 528. When I got off of the 417 at Lake Nona, MPG was 48.4!!

Early morning drive, no wind. But, the most interesting thing was, , , , I unintentionally discovered the drafting sweet spot behind a semi. Traffic being what it was, , , , I ended up behind a semi. Nothing all that unusual but, , , , , I looked down at the display and the little gas mileage slider display was way over to the right (left = 0, right = better). At first, in that split second, all I could think was that the engine was cutting out! Then, there was the ", , , hey, wait a minute" moment, ", , , , I'm drafting the semi! All things equal, the short period of time that I drafted (about 7 miles) resulted in a "trip" gain of 2 MPG.

I will conduct further study next week.

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Dora Hates You

I really wanted to keep my 1997 Suburban (likewise about 14-15 mpg on daily use) for the same reasons, but the Cash-for-Clunkers trade was too sweet.

(I got $4500 for a car worth about $1500 blue book; thank you fellow taxpayers! )

Possibly of interest (if I didn't already overlook a link):

http://www.hypermiler.com/

I've had a few "regular" cars that really did well with gas mileage. A Geo Prizm/Corolla, Mazda Progege and Saturn SL. All were manual and getting about 36 mpg with mixed driving. Also, with a manual transmission I do a lot of neutral drifting, not to be confused with Tokyo drifting. Basically putting the car into neutral while approaching red lights, stop signs, long downhills (didn't always live in FL).

I worry that manual transmissions will soon be a thing of the past. It makes me sad. I'll continue needlessly revving and loudly engine braking while I still can.

Well, , , , after reading various reviews it seems that there are a lot of those that still want a manual, and at the least, an "old style" auto that you can feel when it shifts. Buggy whip?

Then again, remember 10 years ago when the iPhone came out? A lot of folks did not like it at all because, , , , it was too hard to text without actual buttons/keys on the phone.

Ya'll will get-over-it and adapt to your newfangled CVT.

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Dora Hates You

I was at BJ's tire center two weeks ago and the big ol mechanic(young guy though) came running out after me with my keys to sheepishly ask if I could pull my CRV into the bay because it was a manual!!!

I was scared to let him work on it but he said he knew tires well!


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I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

mine is a 6 speed with no gear pattern on the shifter, nobody can figure it out. where they all assume reverse to be is actually 6th gear which doesn't get you anywhere.

Nice anti theft on the cheap lol

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I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

Six speeds are great!

1, 3, and 5 on Mon, Wed and Friday,

2, 4 and 6 on Tues, Thurs and Saterday

and the tranny lasts twice as long!

(as heard on CarTalk)

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Did the Deltona trip again Saturday. From Hwy 50 in T-ville on 95 to 46, 46 to 415, and then local roads and back to 95 in Mims: 49.1 MPG. When I turned off of 95 onto Wickham Road it had dropped to 47.1.

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Dora Hates You

^NICE!^

I heard this on the drive home yesterday:

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/02/13/514513439/rollout-of-chevy-bolt-may-mark-turning-point-for-electric-car-market

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Like the price on the Bolt....

.... and surf racks.


Hmmm, wonder if my 9 footer will fit inside.






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Puerto Rico 11 - 24 - 2013

$30K after $7500 Federal credit is too rich for my retired surfer blood.

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Dora Hates You

Deisel Cruze gets 52 mpg & starts at $24,670.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/we-now-know-the-2017-chevrolet-cruze-diesels-digits-24670/

http://www.autoblog.com/2017/02/13/chevrolet-cruze-diesel-official-mpg-rating/

Just sayin'.

Was just reading about the diesel Cruze

does it really have a 9 speed automatic?!?

it might as well be CVT

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I think it may pay for itself on fuel costs in the long run.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

I'm not sure if my understanding of MPGe is correct but 

1 gallon equivalent is 37/kWh (at $0.114 kWh)

so should cost $3.84 in electricity,

since the Bolt is getting 100MPGe, that's about $0.038/mile.

A gallon of diesel cost about $2.30 right now,

diesel Cruze gets about 52MPG from above so about $0.044/mile.

Only about a 13% $ fuel saving.  

Of course, fuel is really cheap now.  

IF diesel was $4/gal and electric stayed about the same

you'd be saving about 50%.

Back of the envelope calcs are always subject to

CAVEATS!!!

Such as, this is a back of the envelope calculation, YMMV.  Haha!

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Edited: 02/17/2017 at 06:53 AM by tom

This Bolt test got 4.1 miles per kilowatt-hour.

So at $0.114 kWh that's $0.028 per mile, a bit better.



-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Seems that the MPGe rating may be more conservative

than conventional EPA estimated MPG on conventional cars

that can be, shall we say, optimistic at times?

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ding, that's awesome
that via the onboard MPG calculator, right?
wondering if you have calibrated it for real, via the gas pump?

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

has anybody seen one of these yet?

Kia Niru



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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Yes, built in.

Now, at that, I plan on doing some gallon versus miles measurements. General theories report that the "gas mileage" computers nominally report 5%+- better than actual.

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Dora Hates You

Edited: 06/09/2017 at 01:13 PM by dingpatch

Long time ago I had a 110 mile daily drive for work, so I bought a new 1988 Civic 3 door with a 1.2L 4 cyl and a 4 speed for under $8k out the door.  I quickly dropped in a junk yard 5sp with taller gearing, a perfomance cam, headers and a coil over suspesion. At some point I ran the VIN number and found that car never should have been sold in the US, because it was built for sale in the BVI and PR. 

I drove that car for 9 years like it was a rented mule and put over 300k miles on it.  The only repair it ever had was clutch, but I sold it becasue it needed an idle control valve and new tires.  It consistently gave me 50 mpg even while it was often driven at the 8K rpm redline.  I calculated my total cost own and drive that car, including gas was about $.05 per mile.  I sure wish I still had that car today.  It was the best car I ever owned.

Oh, it also fit an 8'-6" inside with room to spare.   

Update, , , , calculated my own MPG over 2 fill-ups (topped off then 2 additional tanks).

677.3 total miles

Onboard mileage computer says 33.2 MPG

My calculations report 32.7 MPG

So, without too much "over thinking", I'm going to say that the on-board overstated MPG by 1.5% All-in-all, not too bad of a delta.

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Dora Hates You

Currently "over thinking" this, but my brain is stuck. So, cars typically overstate MPH by a little bit to make their speedos err on the side of caution when it comes to speeding. Also, the tire's revolutions per mile increase as your tire wears. Could either of these hypothetically explain the delta?

I replaced my VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI (diesel) that was fast and quite fuel efficient 43 MPG with a new VW Alltrack TSI that gets 27 MPG. They did make some nice improvements to the 2012 but man do I miss that diesel.

Just sold my 2013 TDI Wagon back to VW last week. I loved it, figured it was the last car I'd ever need to buy. Took the money and paid cash for a 2016 Camry that's getting around 30 mpg on my wife's commute to KSC.

I never got the insane mpg expected out of my TDI. Majority of driving was in town. Lower 40's than epic's car, even when the whole trip was highway. Those last 10 mph (from 70 to 80) and wind resistance of surf racks definitely cut into the mileage. 55 mph on a back-country road was an entirely different story though.

I was hoping VW would just come out with hub-motor rear wheel kits for an instant conversion to diesel/electric hybrid, or that they'd have something like that in the near future.

Looks like they really screwed the pooch on exporting diesels for a long, long time.