Alright, you’re killing me smalls.  All over social media and this forum, everyone keeps claiming sand, sand, sand is what ruined First Peak.  Then people suggest that we need to dredge the north side of the inlet to restore the wave.

Some members of our team at FPP have worked in beach nourishment for years.  We’ve literally LIVED onboard hopper dredges.  We want to share some perspective on sand and why dredging is the farthest thing from reality when it comes to restoring First Peak.

1.    Beach nourishment is a form of coastal protection geared towards reducing storm impacts. It’s not total coastal protection but it aims to mitigate storm damage as best it can. By dredging offshore of First Peak, you would be making the water deeper, allowing more wave energy to enter nearshore, and increase the shoreline’s susceptibility to storm damage.  This clearly violates State and Federal statutes.  How can we possibly suggest a remedy to fix First Peak that violates State and USACE policy?

2.    Ranking Criteria. The Army Corps and FDEP evaluate the coastline of Florida and identify critically eroded areas.  These eroded areas are prioritized and fall onto a waiting list for cycles of county, state, and congressional funding to be allocated to their area.  Sometimes it take 5 years or more for a critically area to be addressed. The mid-reach in Brevard County for example has been waiting almost 10 years for sand in some areas.  If First Peak was even to get on this list to be dredged (which is counterintuitive to point #1), we could be waiting a decade to do anything.

3.    Costs.  Regardless of points #1 and #2 above, we have gone through and made a quick assessment of a price tag to effectively dredge the north side of the jetty to make an impact.  We estimate about 100,000 CY needs to be removed to restore the north side to pre-1970's First Peak.  Keep in mind this is nearshore so it’s shallow water dredging, the most difficult type.  A decent guess would be $40/CY all in to pump this sand to the south side via subsea pipeline. Truck haul would cost about 50% more, if the equipment can even access the sand.  That means the project would cost $4,000,000.  Where is that $4,000,000 supposed to come from?  Our plan to restore reflection costs $180,000. How can we justify the $4 MIL over the $180K.  That’s like asking do you want to pay $3 per gal for gas or $66 per gal?

4.    Ephemeral effect.  Even if we got to point 3 we would have to deal with the temporal nature of dredging.  The north side of Sebastian Inlet is accretional meaning it naturally tends to fill up with sand.  That means our dredging efforts would almost certainly be eradicated and filled-in by the first nor’easter or storm event.  Kiss that $4 MIL goodbye. The First Peak Project is totally for dredging when dredging is the practical and logical answer.  Due to dredging’s temporal nature, it is not a sustainable solution to restore First Peak for the long term.

5.    Habitat. Ok, now we have gotten to the point that dredging to restore First Peak seems totally ridiculous; because it is. However, did you consider policy advocates for beach protection and habitat such as the Surfrider Foundation and the Sea Turtle Conservancy?  The First Peak Project has teamed up with Sea Turtle Conservancy and Surfrider Foundation to discuss policies that unify us and come to a solution to restore First Peak that works for all of our organizations.  While I am not an official spokesperson for said groups, the First Peak Project will not support any solution to restore first peak that is temporary or causes destruction to the shoreline.

6.    Wave Reflection. Now we drill down to the real meat and potatoes.  In 2001, the State of Florida released $40,000 to conduct a feasibility report to reduce impacts to First Peak.  Obviously, that feasibility study was a fallacy in that it did not make accurate assessments of the change in reflection.  However, this State Document solidifies the concept that First Peak is caused by wave reflection.  By the surf community claiming sand is responsible, you are in direct conflict with the state-of-the-art and documented research.  Therefore, to overturn this feasibility study and change the mechanics of First Peak from reflection to dredging, you’re going to have to come forward with some major credentials and data.  The precedent was set almost 20 years ago: According to state funded research, wave reflection creates First Peak.

This was an exhaustive essay just to describe something that is a total moot point.  Talking about sand regarding restoring First Peak is a total waste of time and energy.  A very high-ranking coastal official, who will remain nameless, even told us that if the community wants to restore First Peak, they better expel the word “sand” from their vocabulary.

Now can we all please get our heads out of the sand?

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 01/03/2018 at 11:12 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

i like u

what if they put up a pump house like at pump house, there is always a deep hole there.

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I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

True, reflection, not sand, is the problem. I'd like for my son to be able to enjoy surfing First Peak just as I did 30 yrs ago. As you know, this is not a trivial undertaking. What modeling or other work have you done to demonstrate you can recreate the necessary reflective properties of the old jetty? How will you account for the different shape and angle of the current jetty? Has this data been evaluated by other experts in the field? Finally, what assurances do you have from government agencies that you will be permitted to implement the necessary changes? I can only speak for myself that I am politely skeptical that FPP (1) is just an opportunistic money grab and (2) could actually make the surf at the Inlet worse (although his latter point may be inconsequential since the surf at the Inlet now is essentially the same as nearby breaks).

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"If I say it's safe to surf this beach, captain, then it's safe to surf this beach!"

SurfCaster - Please reply to this recent thread and let us know what you think. Cheers.

First Peak Open Invitation

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

I can't help but comment...probably against my better judgement. I think what you are trying to do is great and I hope you succeed, it's a very interesting project. I agree that sand is not the only factor in quality first peak, but it was a major factor in it's former state. I've commented several times before due to my interest in your project so let me apologize ahead of time for repeating myself and being a nuisance in general. Based on decades of surfing first peak in every condition imaginable sand was absolutely critical to it breaking properly...even in the "old" days when it was "good". The reflection was always there regardless of what state the sand was in. the problem was when there was a lot of sand it caused the preceding wave to contact the jetty at to tight of an angle with in turn made the reflecting wave come off of the jetty at to tight of an angle, this caused what we use to call "over wedging". When it "over wedged" it was almost useless. Regardless of the sand state northerly swells usually sucked due the angle,approach to the jetty...again that angle thingy(swell interval was a factor to). Generally the sand was best at the end of the summer and worst at the end of the winter after it had accumulated from all the northerly activity. But....that was then and the jetty was different...there was no "T" at the end(this is plainly detrimental), the new pilings angle and lack of worm rock absorbs instead of reflects(the issue that you are working on) and lastly Monster Hole is much further out and shallower. So....getting the jetty to bounce wave energy instead of absorb it is one of the keys to restoring first peak...but...that's just one of several key factors. if you can restore the bounce with a good angle that would go a long way toward success.

Having surfed it in pre-piling reinforcement and post, it is obvious to anyone that has solved one differential equation on wave motion that the pilings wrecked the reflected wave.  So, that accounts for probably less than 1% of the people that post here.  Sand does have a subtle effect on the wave that varies with tidal range, but regardless of where the sand is, it truly is the reflection that grooms and creates the wave people want.  If you attended any of the First peak project's info sessions, they showed the latest non-linear models (so much better than what I used 20 years ago) that give extremely high confidence of restoring the wave.  Sand is a second order effect that only increases the initial stoke once the reflection can return. If you have any doubts, questions, or do not understand non-linear equations, and are serious about restoring the wave, it is well worth your time to actually try to understand the situation and talk to the first peak folks. The T on the jetty is so physically small compared to a wave period it is literally in the noise.  As I tell my surf buddy, you can only take blind faith or a million independent surf sessions in different conditions so far until you have to actually prove something.  

Pompano - Thank you for backing us up. We've tried so hard to hold these public events and show blueprints and computer models to people.  And we agree with you, this stuff is complicated but we have some of the world's best numerical modelers on our team and we will be sharing more soon.

Keep helping us get the word out there.  We need more positive public support behind this project.

Cheers!

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/20/2017 at 09:04 AM by TheFirstPeakProject

I was told the wave would bounce off of the concrete foundation at the bottom of the original jetty. You have been around long enough to know that the base isn't concrete, it's rocks and a good part of the wave would pass through the jetty and into the inlet.

My problem with the restoration isn't sand, it's the base principle that they have built their models on.

If you aren't sure what created the original wave, how can you recreate it?



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I was right.

Cole - We clearly state in our first peak video that the reflective surface was once made of rocks, pilings and marine growth.  We know this from going under the jetty and taking pictures.  We don't understand why the material composition regarding the base of the north jetty is still a topic of discussion?

We are 100% dead certain that First Peak was made from reflected waves. First Peak was what surfers call a "wedge wave." The principal of a wedge wave (aka side wave or reflected wave) is similar to Newport Wedge, CA, Caldera Costa Rica, and Rancho Santana, Nicaragua.  There's even a wedge wave in the Caribbean that has gotten a lot of attention lately.  See image 20 by Laserwolf (and read the caption) or watch the movie Pedro's Bay to see some wedge waves in action.

If you're still not convinced that reflection once caused First Peak, there's state funded research that confirms that reflection is the key. Let me introduce you to the 2001 feasibility study that was supposed to prevent the destruction of First Peak.  When you watch the Surfer Film on First Peak, you hear Kech talk about a "feasibility study" at time 3:40.  Here is a link to the feasibility study here: 2001 feasibility study

Here's the deal with this "feasibility study".  Back in 2001, due to surfer's concerns, the State paid $40,000 to have this study commissioned.  This study states the word "reflection" over 50 times and exhaustively explains how reflection is responsible for creating First Peak.  To reiterate, this is state funded research that describes the reflection effect and this study sets a strong precedent.  Therefore, the only thing the community can do to restore First Peak, is to re-evaluate this study and try and correct this study's fallacies. 

Remember, in 2001 technology was a lot different.  Today, we can go back and prove that this 2001 feasibility study was incorrect and make the appropriate adjustments to restore First Peak. However, to get the state to do anything, surfers have to want to do this!  Public demand is key!!!

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/21/2017 at 03:05 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

grdsurf – You are completely correct.  You also bring up a very good point. We failed to make an important distinction regarding sand and the wedge.
We 100% agree with you that the sand does effect characteristics of First Peak in many ways.  Sand effects the length of ride. It also effects the water depth along the jetty which in turn effects where the reflection will occur given a certain wave height and water depth.

And, sand is always changing! Some days the sand will be crap and the wave won’t be so good and some days the sand will help make the wave epic.  This is all due to the natural variability of the system.

However, we can’t control this.  Sand is going to do what sand is going to do.  And as we outlined in the post above, it is nearly impossible to do anything about it from a legal and political standpoint.

So, while we agree with you that the sand does change the wave, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse, it’s something that we can do nothing about and therefore do not need to dump any time or energy into it.

Remember, we have to follow very strict permitting guidelines and this can NOT be a dredging project!  Thanks for the comment.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

SurfCaster - The First Peak Project is a 501c3 non-profit and is also paypal verified. You can verify both of these on the web.  We've also invited anyone on here to meet with us and see for themselves that this is a very real project.  If you PM us we can give you contacts in government to contact to verifiy that we are having these conversations.  This is real man. If anyone wants to put on some khakis and a polo shirt and join us for the next government meeting or assembly where we'll talk about First Peak, come'on!

In terms of making the inlet break worse...Honestly, I don't know if that is possible. It's terrible down there.  Waves don't even break near the jetty anymore. Plus, making the wave break worse would be very irresponsible wouldn't it?  It takes a very focused and professional team to apply for a coastal permit and there is no one on the FPP team who is willing to risk their career or reputation by making a wave worse.  That is not an option.

Thank you for your comments regarding your son.  We feel the same way.  We're not restoring First Peak for us, and we're definitely not rstoring first peak for the old school locals who won't support the project. It's so sad to meet 18 year old surfers who have absolutely no idea about First Peak and how good it was and what it meant for the community here.  We think it is extremely selfish for anyone to think that restoring First Peak is for themselves or for some grumpy old men.  We need to bring back FP for our children and the future, and thank you for supporting us on this point.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/20/2017 at 05:47 AM by TheFirstPeakProject

 

Stoked Panda - A pumphouse is just another form of dredging and the deep hole will be in front of the pumphouse...near the shoreline.  No chance to improve reflection or create a long ride. 

Plus, the pumphouse built for Boyton Inlet in 2010-2012 had a price tag of $24 MIL. Let's be real.  Where's that money going to come from?

Now, one thing pumphouses are good for (in terms of improving surf) are the southside breaks of inlets.  Think about Reef Road and outside Boynton Inlet. When they pump sand to the southside, the sand fills in and creates kind-of a point break.  The same thing happens when Austrialia pumps sand from D-bah to Snappers.  The result is super.  So a pumphouse at Sebastian Inlet wouldn't do anything for First Peak, but Monster Hole could line up from up-top to jungle trail. Yew.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

If anyone is familiar with the Mayport poles break, I surfed there the last time they dredged the St Johns and transferred the filtered sand material south of the Jetty, and what it created was an amazing rippable left. This was back in late winter/early spring 2015. Crazy good wave.

It still happens every once in awhile, a couple years back https://youtu.be/2EdoURlF1qc

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The Wavecaster

I feel for you guys trying to herd these cats.

Cudos to you for trying to actually do something about the one thing EVERYONE bitches about.

I'm old enough to have surfed the inlet when it was good, and even back then it only had a true first peak when the bounce was really happening. South swell, no bounce. SE swell, no bounce. Some days - unreal.

So my request is you drill strategic holes in the panels so they play a song when the waves hit - like the Sea Organ in Croatia. I'm thinking Despacito.




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A horse walks in to a bar. Bartender says "Why the long face?"

I'm sold. Make the wave reflect and the wedge will return. It's not like Sebastian inlet is the only "wedge" on the planet. I've surfed a few others and one in particular had a ton of sand build up. The wave still reflected off the jetty and did its thing. Don't need to understand non linear equations and dork talk to understand that.

Besides the point, the inlet sucks now and has for a while. Anything to hopefully improve it is worth it IMO. Spanny will still be there either way

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I type on fone 99% of time. Let the typos slyde. Thanks

If this is an honest effort for the wave, I'm all for it.

If it's a low percentage payout non-profit/charity, I am not.

But here is what I am referring to: Sebastian Inlet too has a solid impermeable core that has a very low freeboard, typically submerged at high tide. This solid core is what used to cause the reflections back in the day before the outer pilings were installed along the crib structure.

http://www.2ndlight.com/fuseta...165197&highlight_key=y

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I was right.

Cole - Since the jetty was first cut open in the 1920s there's been tons of construction and additions.  One of the biggest changes ever happened to First Peak in 1970 when the "pier" structure was built. Sometimes it gets caught in the cross-fire regarding what "era" of First Peak we're talking about.

When you talk to the guys who surfed First Peak back in the 50's and 60's it was unlike anything any of us can ever imagine.  The waves would reflect some a solid core.  Then in 1970 when the pier construction began, rocks were placed in front of the wall which killed the orginal First Peak.

Then the "mid-era" First Peak was from 1970 to 2000.  This is the First Peak that would go pop-pop-pop as waves would run along the base.  This reflective surface was made of concrete pilings, rocks, and marine growth (primarily worm reef).

We will never be able to restore the original First Peak from before the 1970s. That would require dredging and a massie amount of huge rocks to be moved.  But can you imagine? That would be the sickest wedge anyone has ever seen. The O.G. guys are right...we'll never know.

We can restore the First Peak that existed from 1970 to 2000 by improving the reflective surface along the base of the "pier".

We made a quick image to show you.  Let us know if this image helps clear things up.  We know a lot of guys from the old school that help us keep our story straight.

PS... This isn't some quick payout. Stop being so imaginative like this is some scheme or something. We're trying to bring First Peak back and we're not going to stop until that permit application is on the desk in Tallahassee.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/21/2017 at 07:18 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

Don't take me the wrong way, I'm all for bringing back an great wave, but. It seems the "improvements" made in the last restoration were successful in sustaining the structural integrity of the jetty. The new piles absorbs some of the wave energy and the old structure absorbs the rest. Good luck convincing them to let you do something that is going to take away from that fact.

Let's face it, Ke11y is arguably the most successful non-team sport athlete this earth has ever known, and number 58 in the world, journeyman golfer makes more than him.
The world could care less about First Peak.

It only matters to a very small segment of the populace.

I think that is what chopola and co. are reiterating.

Furthermore, stopping damaging wave action is a recent key topic regarding the Cocoa Utilities.

Fla Today Article

Good luck, and many thanks for trying. E for effort!

I'm all for you bringing it back - thought rc is right, in it's heyday there were only about ten people that caught waves, the rest were relegated to over wedged chunks down the beach. I'm just making sure you understand the original.


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I was right.

Edited: 10/22/2017 at 03:48 PM by Cole

Sorry, but those boards were terrible.



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I was right.

Respectfully, we don't agree with those of you who downplay the importance of First Peak to the community.  There used to be ESA, NSSA and WQS contests every year.  The King of the Peak contest used to draw world ranked surfers from all over the globe.  The surfing media world was lit up with shots of First Peak on a regular basis.  And just look at the list of champion surfers First Peak bred...Crawford, Slater, Holland, Anderson, Hobgood 2x, Lopez 2x, Morcom, Kechele, Melhado...

We're trying to restore First Peak for our children and give them the chance to become the new breed of champions.  We think it's sad and utterly selfish that a few grumpy old men only think about themselves and how good they had it.  Well, apologies ahead of time guys, and we hate to burst your bubble, but the FPP is not about you.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/22/2017 at 05:59 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

This is a benefit to the surfing community. Isn't this a surfing forum?  If we are not the ones to be good stewards for surfing, who is?  Why would we not try to promote something that would improve surfing conditions at the inlet?  This is something that could be designed to help stabilize the jetty, improve surfing conditions, provide structure for fish habitat, and give people a chance to surf a legendary wave. 

I'm all for it, knock yourself out.

I'm just jealous I was never one of the ten, though I did score some epic days thanks to no internet.

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I was right.

IIRC, the wedge continued to exist for a few yrs after the rebuild in 2002/03. We then had the 04 hurricanes which did remove a lot of sand from the systems. It seems the wedge started having issues around the time of the post hurricane beach nourishments in 05/06. I wonder if there is a correlation between the amount of exposed un buried reefs in satbe/Indialantic and the inlet wedge. Both obviously affected by the nourishments.

Its possible that redesigning the jetty to increase the reflection could help wash out all that built up sand... or could ruin it even further.


Maybe another Sandy type N swell could help things out.

Tip's video shows the current potential.
I wonder if looking back through old Mamma G posts would help get a timeline of when the wedge started to disappear.

Think it was crowded back then in the 70's-80's.   It would be just like secret light is now overcrowded and full of kooks  .

I'm not sure of the timeline of the two photos, but there seems to be significantly more sand today, than there was before the rebuild.





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I was right.

The beach is different, the jetty is different and add all that sand--not good.

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The Wavecaster

Nice comparison Tip. The straight run of the jetty has been removed from the equation. There is nowhere for the reflection to go. All refraction and no bounce.

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I was right.

To be fair Cole, your panorama appears to be from March, which in my experience is about the height of the buildup of sand down there from our winter time north swells. Check out the photo below from August of this year at around low tide. Looks like the water line is somewhere in between the two aerial images that TipTime shared. [/URL]

Interesting

 

We clearly highlighted the 6 reasons why we cannot do anything regarding the sand and restoring First Peak.  Please read the first entry of this thread.

The north side of the jetty is referred to as the "North Fillet" by the state park's dredging consultants. The north fillet has been known to flux seasonally for decades.  In the summer the shoreline erodes away, in the winter transport from the north fills the fillet in. It has nothing to do with beach nourishment, especially 20 to 30 miles north.

The Sebastian Inlet Tax District posts these annual reports on their website.  These reports are annual summaries that provide dredging guidance to the inlet district and provide summary data.  Specific data on the north fillet is available for studies such as restoring First Peak.

The state of seasonal erosion has become worse along the fillet has evident in the picture below.  The sea turtle conservancy and fish and wildlife have relocated turtle nests from the shoreline into the dune, which normally was unprecedented but now become and annual practice.

 

 

Therefore, in light of these seasonal increases in erosion, any suggestion to dredge the north fillet is not only naive but completely irresponsible. The First Peak Project's official position is that we will not support nor endorse any solution to restore First Peak requires sand manipulation, either placing or dredging, along the north fillet.

This forum can continue to talk about sand all they want. However, until the surfing community starts talking about the reflection, and not the sand, First Peak will not be coming back anytime soon.

Thank you everyone for posting pictures of the inlet and sand but we have all the pictures we need. We have aerial photography dating back to the 1950s. We have also been photographing the sand in the north fillet since 2008.  But we think it's cute that everyone has a point they are trying to make.

Remember: There is nothing we can do about the sand. You're either completely dillusional or totally ignorant of the coastal engineering industry if you think otherwise.  Sorry to sound harsh but that's the reality of the situation. Stop wasting your time.

(On a side note.  If you really think your pictures are worth something, then we need the time stamp.  We have to go back and tide correct the water level to see where the MSL shoreline is located.  Then we have to compare your photo to a photo in our database of the same time period to see if your picture is an anomly or something of interest to us. Chances are it's not.)

 

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/23/2017 at 03:52 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

Its great someone has this passion to try to make change to benefit all surfers. My opinion, you are not going to get approval to attach anything to that jetty. I think you need to direct your effort more on the lines of adding native substrate in front of and in between the existing pilings. I think I have read comments suggesting this, but after watching your white board vid on youtube where you suggested space age composite material attached, that's not gonna happen.

I think the idea is grand, but after watching the video posted by Cole and Tiptime...in both videos I saw an average of 2 turns and 1 person making it out of a tube. Is the time and effort worth more than 2 turns and a 1/100 tube ride???? I can get that kind of ride anywhere in Brevard on a good day. I would say the benefits of having a "world class" wave in FL is worth striving for, but will it really be world class?

realsur4 - First Peak was credited with being the birthplace of aerial surfing.  Read the entry in the Encyclopedia of Surfing.  If you surfed it before 2000, you would know why.

The First Peak Project is a restoration project and our goal is to restore First Peak back to pre-2000 conditions.  However, First Peak was created on ACCIDENT.  If we go back an engineer a solution on PURPOSE, it is not a stretch of the imagination to consider the wave could be better than it ever was before.  However, the First Peak Project is not making that claim. Too many people would doubt us.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

chopla - Before going public with the First Peak Project, we've had conversations with the state park, brevard county and many other entities including the army corps  of engineers.  Everyone is in agreement with the panels. Here's why:

CONTIGENCY. As part of the experimental permit from the Army Corps we must demonstrate that the installation can be simply and easily removed. Not that the installation would be removed, but regardless, we must demonstrate contingency.

With the panels, we can install them in a few hours, watch First Peak return with the next swell or wave event, then remove the panels if necessary.  Agents from the ARMY CORPS like the idea.

What the park and county officials want to see is public demand.  The last thing any of these agencies wants to see is public uproar.  The county and the corps have their hands full with protest groups against the mid-reach, beach nourishment projects, and IRL water quailty issues (such as Lake Okeechobee discharges) . These agencies will NOT endorse another project that causes public unrest, protest, or uproar.  The First Peak Project is trying to create a positive wave of support from the community, but this is obviously not easy.  Surfers appear to be their own worst enemy.

Again, the surfing community does NOT need to worry about sand, or whether or not anyone is going to hurt the jetty. There are many powerful agencies that have people who are paid to worry about these matters.

The surfing community needs to focus on surfing.  This is a forum for surfing and all the threads are placed under a category labelled surfing. Permit compliance, environmental compliance, structural integrity, sand and nearly any other concern should not be a concern of the surfers.  We need to focus on getting our wave back.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/23/2017 at 05:39 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

This whole project is a waist of time if the sand removal can't be addressed. Extend the jetty and be done with it. I'd take a Ponce or Ft. Pierce set up any day over what we have now. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening until the Inlet becomes almost unmanagable to navigation. 

 

     Ya- it's a hokey setup t'boat outta there on even the smallest ground swell depending on untold factors.

     Extend it, see what happens from a surf perspective, then focus next where feasible. Worst scenario,, the fisherfolk get a speedball, if nothing else, look elsewhere, it's a one man peak t'closeout- build if ya gotta, somewhere else, and,, NEW   

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ola ~

So even amongst our own community there is a difference of opinion that the break has been affected, "opinion" being an operative word as there are limited quantitative measures of that characteristic. Not to mention on one hand you agree with the feasibility study (reflection is dominant mechanism), but on the other hand you you don't (I assume that is the conclusion that the new jetty design will not affect the break). That could be problematic. Tough road to hoe.

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"If I say it's safe to surf this beach, captain, then it's safe to surf this beach!"

SurfCaster - Yes! Now we are getting somewhere. Finally, someone is paying attention.

The key to bringing back First Peak is based in the failure of the 2001 feasibility study to protect First Peak. Yes, we agree that wave reflection caused First Peak. FP was a wedge wave, any one who surfed it knows this.  The Sand condition of the north fillet changes the location of the wedge. That's obvious too. Sand comes and goes. It is what it is.

We need to focus on this 2001 study. The 2001 study did so many things WRONG: 

1) The study did not measure the change in the reflection coefficient of the jetty from adding the new outer row of pilings. FAIL!!!
2) The study made two wave height measurements, one with the old pilings, one with the new pilings, and the wave height DECREASED BY 8%. Would you put your money in an investment with a negative 8% interest rate? FAIL!!!
3) The study has a post script that claims "First Peak Lives On." No reference or measure of success is listed for this claim. FAIL!!!
4) This study was never vetted, peer reviewed, nor were the results (or lack thereof) shared with the public prior to the rehabilitation. FAIL!!!
5) The results of this study are not repeatable because the locations of wave height measurements were not recorded in the study. FAIL!!!

6) There's a lot more shortcomings but these are all too technical to address at the moment. The top 5 fallacies are listed above.

This feasibility study is full of bad science and piss-poor engineering.  The surfing community deserves that this report be thrown out and another study be done.   THE STUDY SAID THE WAVE HEIGHT WOULD DECREASE!!! NO ONE REVIEWED IT!!!  THE STUDY WAS A FAILURE AND FIRST PEAK IS GONE BECAUSE OF IT!!!  IM USING ALL CAPS BECAUSE I AM YELLING!!!

What more do you need?

The surfing community has all the right in the world to demand that their wave be brought back.  Everyone, get your heads out of the sand and help the First Peak Project.  Please read our previous post here to schedule a meeting or a public forum.  We can do this!

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/24/2017 at 07:20 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

Is there a link to the 2001 study?

Why on earth would someone think they could predict wave height with that many variables?


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I was right.

Link to the 2001 study

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Really????

 

 

 

***EDIT: Thefirstpeakproject beat me to the hyperlink.

As Ive said before; Super neat idea and total waste of $$$ and time.Do you even know what storm actually changed the inlet forever? It was a Thanksgiving Nor'Easter in 1983. No hurricane!!! All of the "Tropical" touches and Army Core of Morons have done since is just chip away at the original. And, it even came back differnt, and a lil better even thru the mid/late 80's and early 90's.

   I see your skeptics on here and they are some of my legends and people definetely more knowledgable and therefore, qualified than you FPP guys.

 I say your wasting our $$ and pissing up a tree, but a novel and positive idea.

  You need a boatd of directors that consists of the following:

 1. Trip Freeman

 2. Greg Loehr

 3. Matt Kechele

 4. Capt. Tommy Smith

 5. Jan & Johnny Futch.

    Then you need a hydradynamics engineer and an Oceanographic Geologist from FIT.

 Then, you need to get Govt. Grant $$$ to pay these people, yourselves, and for your lil project. That is if the 7-8 true Inlet Professionals above dont piss in your cornflakes and shoot the FPP in the temple and put it out of our misery!!!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

Edited: 10/30/2017 at 11:00 PM by MyCatSprays

Ha! So you're suggesting that they populate the board with a group of people who have literally done nothing in the past 15+ years to try to restore the wave but complain that it sucks and blame it on sand??? Seems logical...

MyCatSprays - Exactly!  You're exactly right. All we are saying at the FPP is we can bring back the peak.  We read the reports, we know and talked to the Army Corps, hell, the state park even gave us all the blueprints to the jetty.

Now we need to form this POWERHOUSE BOARD and bring the wave back!

This is a REAL opportunity and we need the surfing community behind it. No BS.  We've invited everyone to see what we're talking about. If the surfing community gets behind it, then the park should pay for it.  Its that simple. We're only raising money to demonstrate that people want this to happen.  Please don't shoot the messenger for pete's sake.

We don't understand the hostility and complaining on this forum?  Skeptisim, sure, of course at first, but please tell us we've moved on? How is everyone not ready to bring back First Peak?

And MyCat Sprays.  You were at Catalyst in Melbourne Beach a couple months ago having some beers with us, and watching the First Peak video in the back office.  We won't name drop but some people on your "board list" were there too.  You were stoked on the project. We had a few beers together and you said you'd love to see that wave come back.

Com'on man, why now are you changing your story and ripping us on this forum?

Why don't you help get people stoked on bringing back the peak?

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/25/2017 at 11:00 AM by TheFirstPeakProject

Lotta sand being pounded here...

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

keep getting sucked it this thrread...how will the panels survive a CAT 3 or greater cane'  Seen piers destroyed by storm waves...How would panels survive?  Maybe go the huge rocks (Wedge CA) or Dogbones (Topsail bch NC)? Panels sound cool but maybe a maintenance and/or liability nightmare?

SurferMic - We don't understand why you are concerned with the panels?  Obviously, the state park and the jetty owners have engineers who will not let any one do anything to hurt the jetty. And it's so obvious that the FDEP won't permit anything that will harm the jetty. Stop concerning yourself with this matter.

But if you must know, here are some of the panels' design parameters (remember, nothing has been finalized so take a chill pill before reading on).

1) The pilings are 1.5' wide with 2.5' gaps between them.  The panels would be 1' overhang on each side, so the panels are 1'+1'+1.5' = 3.5' wide. This leaves a 6" gaps between pilings which will fill with worm reef and barnacles (obviously the panel widths and gaps will vary slightly as we are attaching to existing.)

2) The panels are about 4' high, but vertically centred at -1' MSL.  This centers the panels them at MLW, and they will be 3' underwater at low tide.  Therefore the maximum wave force that can be resolved on the panels is a 2' wave.  The jetty is designed to take a direct hit to the deck.  Therefore the design forces of hurricane waves are orders of magnitude stronger than what can be resolved on the panels.  In other words, the panels won;t feel anything.

3) Storm Surge.  Any event with onshore wind, nor'easter, or tropical storm comes with some degree of set-up or storm surge.  A 2' storm surge puts the panels completely underwater through all tides so waves won't even hit them.  During a CAT 4 or CAT 5 storm the panels are so far underwater, they won't even know a hurricane is happening.

4) Think about the worm reef.  They are just tube worms. The worm reef holds on to the pilings just fine and takes a beating all day all night.  Our panels would be made of marine-grade stainless steel, titanium, or ultra-strong composites.  Are you serious to think the worm reef is stronger than steel or titanium? They're just tube worms.

5) The panels are 100% removable.  With Surfline and modern wave forecasting, we're not going to let a hurricane or cold front sneak up on us. We would initially install the panels in June or July when it's flat and test them on a 1' or 2' swell. (Again, the jetty is designed to take 16' waves as a direct hit).  Then before a storm event, the panels can be removed if so desired.

6) Finally, all of this panel engineering will conform to the bridge and pilings restoration industry.  All around Florida, the FDOT is repairing bridges, piers and highway overpasses with restoration technology, which makes the existing structures STRONGER!  How are we going to hurt the jetty if we use attachment hardware designed to make the jetty stronger?

Again, we have presentations regarding this, or if any one wants the structural analysis of the jetty rebuild, PM us and we'll send it to you.

 

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/25/2017 at 01:23 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

The science and desire are certainly there, but as with any project/idea it always boils down the $.  You still don't have a plan for funding this.  Taxpayers will never go for it, and the USACE is not going to do it for free without government fiscal authorization.  You can't call it dredging, but you can't call it shore protection either.   Remember the inlet is, and always will be, a navigation project.  Selling T-shirts and asking for donations just won't pay the bills.  Sorry to be a realist.

Come'on Ppetersen! You're a professional in the coastal industry. Help us out here brother!

Obviously, this is not a shore protection or a dredging project. We have made that abundantly clear in the first entry of this thread.  Also, you know better than anyone that the USACE is a massive organization with many divisions and departments. You can't generalize and lump them into one unit.

Within the CORPS, the Coastal Inlet Research Program (CIRP) a division of the Coastal Hydraulics Laboratory (CHL) and they are always looking for experimental projects to improve navigation and reduce the coastal impacts of inlet systems.  To wit, the CIRP has a vested interested in researching and improving what they call "Natural Sand Bypassing."

We've talked with the CORPS in the past about how our panels may be optimized to improve natural sand bypassing, especially because they are removable, meaning they can be tuned for seasonal variability.  The CORPS has been enthusiastic and keen to helping out, possibly with a monitoring partnership.  The CORPS has a vehicle called an unsolicited broad agency announcement (BAA) that allows groups to explore these avenues.

We appreciate your realism, but we would also appreciate your attention and contact us for a presentation or conversation before drawing hard conclusions. We all benefit if we get on the same team.

Speaking of $, we're talking $180k.  That's peanuts compared to what the gov't spends on other coastal projects. Totally peanuts.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Love the passion and facts to back it up.  Will do what I can to help.

You FPP guys need to call Greg Loehr!!! If anyone has the overwhelming Inlet knowledge, and outside the box, and far superior perspective on innovation, and can devise and oversee an undertaking such as this, its Greg. Dont call Crawford though; He just raped the place, is dumber than a wet softball, and would ruin it all!!!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

We all want to see this wave restored and Hartley could fund $180k without blinking.

This seems like somewhat of an obsession for you, though. Explain what's driving it.

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"Don't count the days, make the days count." -Ali
#rydyrstrong

CERTON - You and others have mentioned our passions and now obsession, but we assure you this isn't the case. To speak on behalf on my team, it's a lack of closure.

Please keep in mind, many of us at the FPP work in the coastal engineering and surf pool industries, day in, day out.  We live and breath this stuff. Here's a list of our partners and people helping make the FPP happen.

Regarding closure, we tried to restore First Peak as a "behind closed doors" initiative, meaning, we've met with the park, the CORPS, Brevard County, Surfrider and a host of other groups. There was a resounding consensus from everyone: These groups are enthusiastic and supportive but they want to see positive public demand before putting their name on it.

"Surfers" are historically a pain-in-the-ass.  They are a very vocal stakeholder group and typically naive when it comes to the coastal matters they protest. This is why the agencies mentioned above are so gun-shy to charge forward with First Peak.  Can we blame them?  Look at negative commentary on this public surfing forum for example.  Truth is, the real roadblock to restoring this wave is lack of community support, and specifically, lack of support from the surfers.

Park wants it. CORPS wants it. Surfers don't. This is where the lack of closure comes from.

Then look at some current events:

1) Brevard County just cut a check for $125,000 to bring back the Sebastian Inlet Pro.  That's ONE CONTEST, one time. Compare that to $180,000 and we bring back the wave for many contests, YEAR AFTER YEAR and not only for contests, but for free-surfing too!  Put yourself in our shoes and think about that?

2) You mention "Hartley could fund $180k without blinking." Well, what about Slater?  His group built a $10,000,000 surf pool in California and are working on a $50,000,000 pool in Florida (private, no public access).  Neither Hartley nor Slater will meet with us, let alone arrange a meeting with one of their agents.  Kelly doesn't have to spend a dime, and we don't want to ask Kelly for money.  All he has to do is share our fundraiser on facebook or instagram. Two mouse clicks.

Same goes for Hartley, we just want his support. We only want surfers to pitch in $20 bucks each, we're not asking for anyone to fund this themselves. Remember the keg parties back in the day when everyone bought a cup? Com'on now!

Surfers. Listen. The state park, the county, the tourist development commission, all have $$$ they can drop. We think if we raise $90,000k on our GoFundMe we can get a matching fund. All of this protest is absurd. We clearly see that First Peak was lost due to poor science and engineering. There are many groups that want to see the wave brought back, however the chief constituency, the surfing community, is the biggest obstruction.

So you ask us if we're passionate or obsessed? No, more like we're disappointed.  But don't worry, the FPP team can't keep this going much longer.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/26/2017 at 06:30 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

surfers aren't just uneducated, opinionated asses,

they also practice poor personal hygiene...

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

Ok, so I've been an apparent skeptic of this idea and the FPP guys since jump, as you can previously read!!! Well, after a phone call from the Biggest and Gnarliest Inlet Legend of them all, Mr. Trip Freeman, I have been assured and convinced by the most knowledgeable, deepest tube riding, surfed it bigger than anyone, heaviest inlet local ever and Im All In!! I support y'all and will help to promote your cause!!!

  And FPP, Hartley is a no caring, trust fund baby!! Asking him for help or money is like asking Morcom for a kryp swat and a ride to the inlet. Hes got an ounce of the gnar, a full tank of gas, and an empty ride, yet still says NO!! Waste of fucking time!! And KS11 aint done shit for Cocoa Beach, Brevard, nor the Inlet since he left at 16. He's the last person to ask, but if you donate $10,000 for PR relief, you might get to ride his shitty lil wave. What a farse!!!

   Trip is gnarlier and better and been running the Inlet longer than either of those spoiled brats, plus Trip has record life saves, has fished, dove, and actually lived at the Inlet; He knows it better than anyone and he says LEGIT; Then its the real deal, possible, and worthy of our help yall. Trip hasnt called my # in a decade, but made sure to just call me and let me know FPP is real, will work, and deserves my help!!

  I guess these Jeremy and Justin kids are the Shizzle and have already jumped thru rings of fire and walked on hot coals to get this far!! Kudos boys; Col.s in!!! Sorry, but Im a skeptic at heart, but, respect my Elders/Legends, and give credit where credits due. 

   Trip thought my Greg Loehr idea was one of the best ideas/people to get invovled hes heard yet!! Thanks for staying on me FPP, being so well written and polite, and for having Trip call me and set me straight!! And I dont do half measures, so tell me what I can do besides donate $50 I barely have.   SV

  And thecrest of you skeptics needed to look a bit deeper and dig/donate deeper than that!!

 

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

And FPP; Do Not let Gary Propper get involved!! Legend surfer that he is, he's All HOLLYWOOD and will turn it into The First Peak Mutant Ninja Inlet GoFundHim project!! Fuckin Guaranze!!!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

Epic thread boys, thanks for the laughs. I especially like the part about Morcom not hookin it with a snap when he had an oz of tru. The project sounds like a winner to me, may first peak reign supreme again! P.S. only brevard locs allowed to surf it lol

All right 2ndLight Forum. I think the FPP has said our peace. But we're done debating sand.  It's such a dead issue. We're signing out for a little while to let you guys figure this out for yourselves.

Meanwhile...

Satellite Beach just spent $200,000 revamping their skatepark.

The tourist development commission just cut a check for $125,000 to bring back the Sebastian inlet pro.

The local and county governments have the money and we even have interests from the Corps, but surfers keep complaining about everything.  Honestly, everyone at the FPP is stumped.  We believe that if we could raise only $90,000 from the community, we can almost guarantee to get a matching fund from the county or even local state rep.  Those conversations have happened.  But wouldn't you know it, the local surfers are the biggest impediment to bring back the wave? wtf?

Our next move is to let the King of the Peak contest happen this November, and then let the Sebastian Inlet Pro return in January. We hope these contests garnish the attention and support of more surfers, but until that happens, we don't know how to move the FPP forward.

We can't believe surfers won't rally to help bring back this wave.  Bringing it back would be so cool, especially for the kids.

Anyone seriously intersted or have any constructive ideas, email us: reflection at firstpeak dot org

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/30/2017 at 10:30 AM by TheFirstPeakProject

the almost guarantee is holding me back



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I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

2ndLight Forum - Please ignore self-proclaimed trolls like stokedpanda. These are the responses and users that heavily discredit this forum and prevent us from having a mature and real conversation with everyone on here.

Remember, our initative to restore First Peak involves growing more worm reef.  In light of the $28,000,000 beach nourishment project that is going to start burying worm reef in Satellite Beach next year, government agencies (such as the Corps) are looking for ways to make positive improvements within the community that are also positive for the environment. Here is a link to the Army Corp's engineering with nature portal.

Restoring First Peak is at the tip of our fingers if everyone could just get on the same team, so stop being anonymous kooks and be real people who make it happen.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 10/30/2017 at 01:57 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

Dont worry Jerm; Everyone on here discounts and discredits ol' "StokePanda"!  Just another web windbag whose probably NEVER caught a good wave at the Inlet in his life; If he's ever even surfed there!!! I believe Mr. Loehr should be getting hold of y'all shortly!!!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

This reminds me of way back when a Fla Today sportswriter by the name of Peter Kerasotis was such a good journalist that a UF fan thought for sure he was a Seminole fan and chastized him as such. I was laughing, having been shown the insides of Ben Hill Griffin stadium, the trophy case, the Ol Ball Coach's office, all the while the duped paper subscribers bantered on.

Though I will never reveal, I do believe Mr. Panda is as authentic a CFL local and naitive Floridian as they get. A very good surfer, too.
He's got all your goats!

This is comedy central, isn't it?

If all the important people, [the people that need to sign off on this], are on board with the project, why not do a prototype and tie some plywood to the jetty and see if you can get a good bounce. 300 bucks worth of plywood and some rope. It will last a couple days with a small swell. If it works, you will have all the support you need.

RC, you might be right, but so am I bro, and probably more so!!! To me though, on an important gig like the FPP, if you're not part of the solution, then Shut The Fuck Up Pussy Lil China Bear, or show your real name and your clout, or you are just another whining web fag, windbag!!! Just like the dumbass comment of "$300 of plywood and rope!" And RC, I doubt the guy gets near Trip's nor mine clout and knowledge so he's just listening to himself talk!!!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

It's all good. I would love to see 1st peak the way it was. We need the clout of some of the King of the Peakers, with uno numero Mr. Hartley. I would think that man's clout would go a long way. How about a weigh in by Mr. Kechele?

We need celebrity/political power. This won't get done with us mere mortals.

Think it through, Kech is always there for a quote on any topic especially related to Ke11y.

This project needs that kind of horsepower.

Dare I request the opinion of the honorable Mike Daniel?

For one, H is a non caring, trust fund baby who aint gonna do shit!! And Trip owns him there and knows 10fold more about the hydrodynamic, bottom, swell patterns, and lil intriquit gigs of 1st peak than Hartley does!! KS11 will never help!! Kech is awesome, Speir too, but were gonna get Loehr in on it, and he is by far the most knowledgeable, intelligent, and outside the box extroverted person to ever grace 1st Peak!!! Im gonna make Reola/...lost/Catalyst get more involved and possibly corp entities and foundations such as Coca Cola and Ducks Unlimited!!! You'd be surprised the pull, corp $$, and phat lobbyists DU has in our government when it comes to renourishing, rebuilding, and conserving in such situations!!! MD is cool, but like you said, a mere mortal!! Maybe surfer/Judge Goerge Maxwell!!! Its gonna go down; Snide remarks from the 2ndL peanut gallery or not!!! But dont count on Slater, Hartley, nor Crawford for dick, EVAZ!!! Cause show me what any of them with their Inlet clout have done for it in the last 30 years;NADA!!! Or for Brevatd surfing period!! 

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

And y'all need some daily, outbound/inbound Captains like Tommy Smith and Glenn,(ask Trip), that have been doing it week in and week out for 20 to 30 plus years!!! Multiple perspectives decreases blinders, and, an open mind is an open audience!!! I cant believe I just said that, but for y'alls gig; It's super relevant!!! NightNight!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

FPP/Jerm; I just brain stormed/farted while cooking a late night burger!!! Y'all need to get hold of/get on board the best, most naturally talented, innate 1st Peak Surfers when it was in it's PRIME!!! NOONESurfed 1st Peak Better Evaz Than Patrick Mulhern!! Far And Away!!! Knows as much about the "Real And True 1st Peak as Trip!!! Get hold of WRV, VaBch; ask Jessie Fernandez how to get hold of Pat!! Y'all Need Him!!!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

Col you teed yourself up and asked to be trolled so I obliged, its all fun and love seeing you get fired up!!

My response on this thread about FPP is serious. As much as I would love to see the peak return I am not ready to throw $$ on a maybe just yet.

Don't see whats so bad about that????

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I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

Ok Panda, and I understand skepticism bro!! Im the biggest skeptic/cynic on this site, and if you look back not long ago, I was kinda neg on these guys, but then I studied their manifesto, read and re-read all of their PDF's, and had a handfull of my Legends and Inlet heroes call "Legit" and ask me to get on board, so I did!!! Like I said previously, I dont do half measures. My gig with your last post is that it was a tad harsh and generic!!! "$300 of plywood and some rope"! C'mon bro, you can do better than that!! True, a small scale model would help the cause, an inevitably, it will be needed to secure the eventual millions that it will take, but wood and rope before you even drop a 20 spot or a Benjamin bro; thats kinda stale!!!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

Bumpbump

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

Okay I'm late to the party but this is so interesting haha.

I started surfing in middle school 2002 central east FL and now have BS in meteorology from FSU c/o 2011.  I have some questions FPP...

How are you sure it's the new jetty and what if it is 100% sand, then what?

I remeber surfing the inlet the first time in August '02 (I did move down from 1st peak about an hour after dawn hah), the construction crew was still setup at the end of the jetty and the wave was full on.  The sets were bigger, more focused into 1st peak than down the beach.  For at least another year 2 or maybe 3 I remember the mechanics remaining like this.

I remember '03 or '04 being there on a little swell.  Chest+ sets were wedging off the jetty with 2/3 turns while just down the beach was knee to waste.

It was more toward the end of hs/when I was in college that the changes were clear.

In my honest opinion I think monster hole has grown (at least it's underwater slope) and 1st peak is robbed of energy on all but maybe a super thin swell window.

Check this link published 2007: http://www.surfline.com/templates/article_html.cfm?id=10105 (note how swell energy is focused into 1st peak but it's the new jetty and the construction is gone)

Now check this link from Hurricane Irma and scroll to the inlet aerials: http://www.easternsurf.com/photos/hurricane-irma-brevard-county/ (you can clearly see in both images a set being focused into monster hole and then hitting down the beach but robbing 1st peak)

Do you know the history of beach renourishment in Brevard County?

It seems like the bulk has been fairly recent per this link: http://www.brevardfl.gov/naturalresources/beaches/restorationprojects

I think it's awesome there's a group to fix the wave but wouldn't it be so annoying to go through so much work and have the jetty idea make zero difference?

I just wonder if all the beach renourishment has grown monster hole and it is pulling swell more in that direction and away from 1st; I mean look at all the beach engineering that's happened during the tech boom and it's not stopping; is it so outrageous to think it could have a measurable affect when the general flow is from Brevard beaches south?  I mean compare the size of monster hole with all the sand they must've dumped over the past 10-15 years and especially after the '04 hurricanes...

Back in the day there were barrels to be had but there was that ultra-reliable perfectly groomed angled roundhouse bowl section on every set pretty much.  Then you did a snap and eyed the closeout section, now you hope for one good turn off the drop or the rare doggy door.  Not only is it not the best wave in FL now it might not even be top 10.

Energy is not focusing into 1st anymore, you know the energy headed into the inlet and down being bended back and combined with the energy originally aimed at 1st... instead alot of what 1st used to get is being drug toward monster hole while it's still approaching and off the jetty.

What if the best option is to stop dumping sand and let the sand they have dumped "play out"?

Check with Surfline on this I bet they'd agree; as I would think a group undertaking a project like this would want their endorsement to help raise awareness, funds, etc. and make it a reality...

KO7, you should PM the FPP guys!! You sound like a highly educated guy in the field of expertise they are looking for, but I think their focus is to bring it back to fruition as it was far before your time, say 81', 86-87, 90', 95. When you started surfing it in 02', Brevard was on its 2nd full beach renourishment, the side wedge was already gone, and the dynamics of the true "1st Peak" was few and far between, if at all!!! I see your point of the sand at The Hole, but that would have nada to do with an East, SE, nor South swell, when the Inlet and 1st peak truly shine!!! With your degree and expertise, try and find video, aerial, and meteorlogical data from say 1980-1995 and put the same effort into that research as you have obviously and thoroughly done from the time you began surfing there up unto the present!!! The Inlet, The Hole, and their dynamics are like no other in Florida and constantly shifting and changing, but I think if you go back that far and have enough sound and accurate data, you will see how very different it was in 82' when I surfed it as a teen than in 02' when you started there!! And dont get me wrong, I, and Im positive, J & J from the FPP applaud your research, input, and overall, your open mindedness!!! Kudos and Good On Ya!!! Like I said, PM those guys and maybe get together at chat and brainstorm over a couple brews!! Im sure they'd love your input and to have you onboard!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

As a heads up to everyone, we'll be down at the King of the Peak event this weekend hanging out with the fine folks under the Surfrider tent. It's another opportunity to meet us and ask your questions in person, so please stop by!

K07, thanks for your comments. We've established our position on the sand topic at this point through many, many posts on the subject. Please review those or, even better, stop by the KOP event so we can discuss in real time!

MyCatSprays, thanks again for your support. One quick correction on a comment you made to stokedpanda: "...it will be needed to secure the eventual millions that it will take..." To be clear, one of the primary reasons we are confident that the project is viable is due to the comparitively low cost for completing it. All of the estimates we have generated to date have put us firmly in the 100's of $K, not millions.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Need Thousands, ask for Millions, then use the surplus to help another project like y'alls get off the ground quick and avoid the struggle!! See y'all at KOP!!!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

Worm rock is already there, but it's sparse. How do you convince it to grow more?

About worm rock for those who are interested.

http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/p...profiles/82_11-115.pdf

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I was right.

 

Thanks Cole. This is the document I needed to see. Thanks bud.

Has there been an attempt to grow worm reef on an object in the near shore tidal zone? (not in deep water, and not on a pier/jetty) Maybe we can start with that.

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http://www.crsurf.com ~ CR Surf Travel Company

http://www.vacationsbygreg.com
Instagram - @crsurf

Very good question/point!!! I do believe worm rock needs tidal flow though, so the IRL wouldnt be viable unless just inside an inlet, but Im no Scientist nor Ocean Biologist!! Very valid response/idea though!!!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

DING DING DING

North, pier waves are my fav on earth, and I've been running Canaveral Pier when it's good for 30 years now, and also dream of pier waves, but alas, we have Turtle nesting and new piers will never happen in Brevard!! Hell, that billionaire that just bought our pier can only do repairs, no additions, and if it loses its end, or goes down, its done; NO REBUILD EVAZ!!! So again, novel idea, but completely implausible!!! It's actually kinda sad that I dream of Canaveral Pier huh?!?!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

Piers are nice but inlets, or any type of significant channel/canyon relative to adjacent water depth and perpendicular to the coast, are ideal.

Panhadle, FL vs. rest of FL gulf coast -> DeSoto Canyon

St. Andrews/Amazons -> St. Andrews Inlet channel

West Long Island, NY -> Hudson Caynon

New Smyrna/Ponce, FL -> Ponce Inlet channel

Shackleford Banks, NC -> Beaufort Inlet channel

Reef Road/Pumphouse -> Lake Worth Inlet channel

South Beach, FL -> Government Cut channel

I could go on and that's just east coast.

These are the primary mechanics that make these other examples POSSIBLE by refraction creating the bowls.

With Shackleford the beach eroded away from the quality swell but with 1st Peak it actually appears the quality swell has been redirected away.

Whether the forcing is renourishment projects or the jetty, I highly doubt the jetty's composition is the problem.

Without the focus and the bowl you can't expect a quality wedge wave to be possible (especially with redirection away), but with it a quality wave period is almost guaranteed...

Since "sand" is the title of this post...... https://weather.com/science/environment/news/2017-11-03-florida-beaches-sand-bahamas

K07, we agree with the beginning of your last post but respectfully disagree on your points in the back half.

We will agree with you that refraction plays a key role at many of the spots you've mentioned, with New Smyrna being a prime example of wave energy bending around on shoals and creating the peaks or "bowls" that you've mentioned.

We disagree that quality swell has been redirected away. We've see in person many, many days over the last several years where significant swell has been interacting directly with the jetty with little to no reflection occurring during that interaction. The only time that significant reflection has occurred has been during the time of year when there has been excess buildup of worm rock on the newer outer pilings. Furthermore, we can model the old and new jetty configurations and definitively prove that the baffle chamber created by the current configuration reduces the total reflected wave energy.

Regarding your last statement "Without the focus and the bowl you can't expect a quality wedge wave to be possible..." you're mixing two unrelated items, both of which aren't required for the peak to function.

Sure, we can debate focus and whether or not swell is being directed away. Regardless of that answer, we know that at least some swell energy is still making it to the jetty and if reflection was occurring as it previously had we should see improved wedges.

On the topic of "the bowl", you mentioned in your previous post that "Back in the day there were barrels to be had but there was that ultra-reliable perfectly groomed angled roundhouse bowl section on every set pretty much.  Then you did a snap and eyed the closeout section, now you hope for one good turn off the drop or the rare doggy door." This was initiated primarily by the reflected wave from the jetty interacting with the next incidental wave and, to a lesser degree, refraction of the combined incidental wave and reflected waves as they continued to break across the sandbar.

Being a knowledgeable person in a relevant field, we'd love to talk to you more about this. Please send us a PM so we can connect!

realsur4, interesting article. I'm sure our friends at Surfrider will be weighing in on this!

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Old 1st peak/other world class beach setups = initial/straight swell energy + refracted swell energy

1st peak now = initial/straight swell energy at best OR sapped swell energy to one degree or another

I am highly sceptical how much reflection can do on it's own... in any real world application TONS of energy is lost in reflection.

And an initlal/straight wave isn't going to go from closeout (or even semi-closeout) to perfect bowl just cause a jetty wedge is thrown in right before it breaks.  It has to already be forming well before the lineup via refracted energy sliding in this case north, into the initial energy, and bowling the lines up (or the wedge doesn't line up with a bowl it just bumps along the closeout like I think we've all seen).

Futhermore, wind swells can still get pretty fun at 1st with wedgy bowls but that's not what made it famous (the negative changes in bathymetry aren't felt as much by shorter period swells).  The mechanics that will still work on the right wind swell are not magnified when a good ground swell arrives but rather break down...

Sorry for the delay but this link at least proves my premise on the changes at Monster Hole: http://www.sebastianinletdistrict.com/pdf/State_of_the_Sebastian_Inlet_Report_2013.pdf

Read the last sentence on page 4 then look at those charts on pages 20, 21, and really 22.

Herein lies definitive photographic evidence that restoring First Peak has little to do with sand. The state of the reflective surface determines the quality of the wave.

 

 

 

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 01/03/2018 at 11:10 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

What does 1958 have to do with anything?

Here's 1975.  Probably closer to the correct period.  

Nice little swell rolling too.  

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

As a practicing coastal engineer that has been at this for 30+ years both from the scientific side and the practical side, there are a few things that should be noted regarding the FPP as well as other beach work projects (since the original topic was sand):

1) Dredge and fill will always be the USACE/FDEP/County first course of action because it is the simpliest and most proven way to get sand on the beach quickly (e.g. post storm).  I don't agree with it, but the agencies don't like to mess with "new and innovative" ways to combat erosion - because they don't understand them.  It is extremely difficult to get them to try someting out of the envelope of acceptance.  And yes, it is very political -

2) We let this whole issue arise when we started letting people build within the long term erosional zones of the coastal systems, knocked down dunes, moved CCL's closer to the water, etc.  The only true cure is to retreat - which will never happen, so we are stuck with the problem.

3) Without a doubt beach fills  affect the surf, sometimes temporarily, sometimes long term.  I have lived in MB 35 years and remember exactly how the surf changed when they started doing regular beach fills.

4) Coastal Engineering is and always has been known to be a bit of "voo doo engineering".  The ocean does not always behave the way the models show they should.  We have spent $$$ on projects that never perform the way they did on the computer.  The ocean/coastal system is so dynamic that it is extremely difficult to ensure anything without a full blown physical model nowadays, and even that is not a given.

5) Regardingthe FPP - I applaud them for pursuing this course, but there are some un-foreseen hurdles coming your way - most importantly the actual engineering/construction portion should this move forward. 

The jetties were designed by a structural ocean engineer that developed a basis of design evaluting all of the forces acting on the structure - currents, waves, wind, impact, storm levels, etc. etc.  By altering the jetties and nearshore system (adding panels, inducing worm rock), it may render the basis of design invalid.  E.g. inducing reflection obviously requiers the structure to withstand the wave force instead of absorb it.

Bottom line, will the Engineer of Record (EOR), the Jetty owner, and the Federal Government allow you to "mess with thier jetty" from a structural standpoint alone?  If I was the EOR (I am not) I would formally present that I was no longer responsible for the design, and resign myself from all liabilty for the design once it has been altered.  Similar to overloading a plane not designed for that payload.

May I suggest that FPP address that issue in parallel with their other efforts to make this happen.  If you have not already, you should locate the basis of design documents that led to the jetty construction and see how your course of action may (or may not) affect it.

I agree with Peterson's 5th point, and I'm surprised the phrase "compromising structural integrity" hasn't been thrown around more. 

Ppeterson - We've reached out to you many times in hopes to give you and your firm a presentation. Will you consider checking your PM and replying to us?  Thank you for your comments and all are duly noted.  One little note... we respectfully disagree that we are partaking in any "voodoo" engineering.

Please consider these points:

1) Members of the team at FPP are also 30+ practicing coastal engineers as well.  Many of us have advanced degrees from FIT and spent our thesis work and dissertation work developing the State of the Inlet Reports.  From a scientific standpoint, we know that inlet like the back of our hand.

2) The USACE, via the CIRP has expressed interests in the FPP as an initiative to improve natural sand bypassing. Those discussions with the Corps and FIT are under way. However, as you well know, the Corps has little role in the management of Sebastian Inlet, so the State Park will need to work in concert with the Corps to move forward.

3) We have all the structural engineering documents from the rehabilitation. The panels simply do not add any significant loading. For example (as exact placement is not finalized) the panels would be 4' high centered at SWL and make the pilings 1' wider on either side. The maximum additional wave load that could impact the panels is from a 4' wave (any higher wave, the panels are overtopped), meaning each individual panel (one panel per piling) would add an additional 600 lb/ft2 of force or 4 psi to each individual piling.  The steel reinforced concrete pilings are rated for over 5,000 psi. How is there any structural harm to the jetty if our added force is three ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE below the loading limits of the jetty?  (We could be incorrect on the piling load rating, specifically at Sebastian Inlet as some pre-stress structural pile is rated for over 10,000 psi, but you get the point).

(Per the rehabilitation strutural design: The maximum force the jetty is designed to withstand is 4,021 lb/ft2 resulting from a 20' hurricane wave slamming the deck. A wave hitting the deck puts a moment arm on the pilings.  Our panels are at the base of the pilings, where no moment arm is resolved).

4) We would design our solution to average surfing conditions. This case above #3 represents a maximum panel size. Although we haven't completed the numerical modelling, we think we can get the panel size down to about 2' high.  Remember, this is Florida.  The average wave condition is 3' @ 6s. These are teeny-tiny waves compared to the world of coastal engineering.  To bring back 3' First Peak, we only need to reflect a 1' or 2' wave, anything more would over wedge the peak and undermine the surfing quality.  This is a very subtle and delicate undertaking.  Seriously...are we really worried that a 1' reflected wave is going to hurt our jetty? Come on now!

5) By using steel jackets or carbon fiber wraps our initiative further strengthens and protects the pilings.  There are many concrete piling restoration technologies on the market as concrete restoration is a mature industry. We've had a few firms look at the FPP give us bids and they all agree our project is very easy compared to more complicated restoration projects.

6) Also, worm reef grows on the base of the pilings.  The worm reef colonies add the same additional structural loading. If there really is a true concern to the structural integrity of the jetty, we should be very concerned about the added loads from the worm reef. In a way, the worm reef shows us that there are no structural integrity concerns. Think about it...a tube worm grows where we want to place some panels. How strong is the the worm reef? If you take one thing away from this thread, our bet is that worm reef is not stronger than carbon fiber, titanium, or stainless steel or else we should be in another business.

7) Ultimately, we want to attach the panels to the old/ interior jetty.  This old jetty continues to corrode. Meaning this interior structure qualifies as a disposable structure (remember the new jetty was built on top). Instead of letting the interior jetty continue to corrode and ultimately collapse, we can bolster it and design the panels to attach to the interior jetty. Literally we could close the gaps between the outer pilings and not set a finger on the outer pilings. To be clear, the outer pilings would experience ZERO additional load. The additional wave load (albeit insignificant) would be passed to the newly-restored interior pilings.

8) The new jetty is now 17 years old and displaying signs of corrosion.  If history repeats itself (and it does) then in another decade the "new" jetty will be in need of rehabilitation.  Will the plan be to build a third jetty over the top?  By being proactive now and using incredible technology, we can implement a program to protect and bolster the entire jetty structure. By letting the corrosion progress, solutions to protect the jetty become more costly and complicated.

9) We would apply for an experimental joint-coastal permit. Typically these permits allow for up to three years. All we need is one day (if the conditions are correct). If we can install panels for one day, one hour, even one set of waves and prove the concept of using wave reflection to restore the wave, how then will this have any effect on the sand?  Remember that the panel concept has FULL 100% CONTIGENCY, meaning we could remove it at any time for very little cost. In the world of coastal engineering, have you ever seen a real 100% cost-effective contingency plan?

10) Many of us at FPP grew up surfing First Peak, but more importantly, spending time at Sebastian Inlet.  We fish, dive, BBQ, kick it, and love Sebastian Inlet State Park.  It hurts our feelings sometimes when people think we would propose anything that would damage that jetty.  There exists a specific design that restores First Peak, strengthens the jetty, improves natural sand bypassing, and grows worm reef (which improves fisheries).  With the Corps, FIT, the State Park, FPP, and the host of coastal consultants all working together, we can do something incredible, and it is so easy to do. Please consider meeting with us or attending one of our public forums for more information.  We will PM you with our contact information again.

Thanks again for your comments. Please consider reaching out to us: reflection at firstpeak dot org

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 01/05/2018 at 03:37 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

The signifcance of the 1958 photo is that the shoreline on the northside is in the exact same spot, almost to the day, more than 50 years later.

The quanitity of sand on the northside fluctuates. It builds up in the winter, erodes in the summer, and it's done the same thing even before they built the jetty.

Many people are of the opinion that sand filling up the north side is what runined First Peak.  Just go back and read this thread.  Yes, the sand can change the length of the ride, and where First Peak forms, but the wedge needs the side wave, and the side wave needs reflection.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

I am not questioning you or FPP capabilities on any level.  If I was not intersted, I wouldn't be following along.  Just making sure you are checking off all of your boxes.

Remember I am old school and I am no longer technically savy with today's social media such as PM's, etc. so if you have tried to reach me, I probably missed it.

I think you know how to reach me.  Give me a shout after my lunch session while the wind still has some W in it.  Maybe it is time for a beer or two once the  north wind kicks back in.

Very good discussions here. Hopefully, something of substance will actually transpire. 1st peak really was a Wow Factor back in the day. But, in-the-mean-time, we all need to be aware of the bare fact that, as surfers, we are sucking hind tit when it comes to any other priorities in regard to the Inlet.

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Dora Hates You

dingpatch - That's one way to put it..."hind tit"

But you're tapping into something real important here.  As everyone has seen or heard, Surfrider Foundation, the County, the State Park, FIT and even the Army Corps are willing to work together and come up with a solution (not to mention the dozens of partners we have listed on our website).  The problem, or at least the reason why no one is prioritzing First Peak, is the surfers. Nearly every surfer seems to have an opinion on the sand, or hallucinates that we're going to remove the end of the jetty, or suggests something completely uneconomical and irresponsible like dredging the northside; all of this unsupportive and uninformed commentary is killing this opportunity. And it's not just on this forum; it's all over Facebook, Instagram, and other discussion boards as well.

Until surfers publicly support the FPP by generating positive commentary, sharing our articles on social media, and by throwing some chips into the pot, surfing that wedge is a long way off.  If buying your next 6-pack is more important that restoring a legendary surfing spot...then why should any of the aforementioned groups prioritize this project?

To those of you who support the FPP or have donated, don't worry, we're not going to give up! It's just that many of our peers are not making it easy.  Be patient and stick with us; more is coming.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 01/04/2018 at 02:19 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

"The signifcance of the 1958 photo is that the shoreline on the northside is in the exact same spot, almost to the day, more than 50 years later."

Sure, we all know sand moves.

But, how was 1st peak in the 1958 photo? 

I'm guessing absent. 

"definitive"?  Hmmmm.

 

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

tom - man, we've heard stories dude...  Before the causeway was built, Dick Catri would tell stories about paddling across the inlet from the Vero side and surfing a super wedge, sometime around late 50's early 60's. All of this occured AFTER the north jetty rock pile was built and BEFORE the "fishing pier" was built in 1970. 

Tabeling, Mann, Catri, Crawford, Pope...those guys all claim that the wedge used to come off the solid concrete jetty and the side wave was just as big, if not bigger, than the next incoming wave, making First Peak a monster over-wedge sometimes. We totally believe the old school guys when they say, "we have no idea how good it used to get."

Respect the legends!

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Well the bathymetric changes in the Sebastian Inlet system during the beach renourishment age have been documented, regardless of historic shoreline photos.

Thx Ppeterson for pointing out beach renourishment affects surf.

K07 - We agree with you. Look. We have accurate bathy data of the inlet dating back to 2007. It's pretty easy to correlate the bathy data from 2007-2017 to the location of the shoreline.  Then using historical photography that shows the shoreline, it's possible to "hindcast" or "reverse engineer" the seafloor topography (bathymetry) back to the 1940's. All good, not a big deal.

We appreciate you bringing up all these little technical sand details, but seriously man, you're overthinking this project.  All we want to do is go down to the inlet and install some panels, for one day, one hour, maybe even one set of waves.  That's it.  If we install the panels only for a day or two, then there is NO EFFECT on the sand. Do you see where we're going with this?  The jetty is over 600' long. Surfline predicts waves up to 17 days in advance. We can go down to the inlet in August, right before a perfect waist-chest high swell, and bring back the wedge for one day. No problemo.

Yes, all of us at the FPP have degrees in coastal engineering and all that college mumbo jumbo, but we're also from here. We know how to swing a hammer and turn a wrench. We've put up plywood for a hurricane before.  Can we focus on the simple panel solution for just for a couple threads?

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 01/07/2018 at 09:06 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

I thought you FPP guys were billing yourselves as scientists and engineers?

"man - we've heard the stories dude..." "Respect the legends!"

Really? 

Maybe you should stick to the "college mumbo jumbo" or the "voodoo engineering" parts...

edit:  And in 1958, Catri had just learned to surf, winter 1957 in Miami according to his biography.  Tabling was 11, Crawford was 6, Pope was 10.  I don't think we have an accurate idea of how surf was at first peak in '58 so using a aerial from then to support your premise really doesn't seem correct.  

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

Edited: 01/08/2018 at 09:01 AM by tom

FPP, stay out of the weeds. Every comment has the potential to open another can of worms.

Set a best chance date in August, get the wood and the straps, then work on the fundraising when the test proves you right.





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I was right.

tom - you took the 1958 date out of context. The image from 1958 was strictly to show the shoreline being in the same spot as 2012. All the legends have different stories from different times, but all agree, pre-1970 (pre-"pier") First Peak was the best it ever was, and we believe them. Yes, we are scientists and engineers, but we're also surfers who want to bring back a wave we should not have lost. Cut us some slack for sounding human.

cole - We need overwhelming support from the surfing community to do the pilot project with removable panels. If we could have done the proof of concept without the surfing community's help, we would have done it a decade ago. Great advice on staying out of the weeds. We wish we could use this forum to bring the surfing community together to do something awesome, but more often its taking steps backwards.  We'll back-off our 2ndlight participation.

 

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 01/08/2018 at 02:39 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

This is a very concerning statement. I got your PMs and plan to meet in person, but I want to be sure it's not a waste of time.

Can you explain whether this statement is financially driven or interest driven?

Ie, Could this proceed immediately with adequate funding from the "surfing community" OR are you required to show proof of "surfing community" interest in some other format (petition signatures, volume of unique gofundme contributors, etc.) in addition to adequate funding for "the project"?

If it's the former, it would be worthwhile for us to talk. If it's the latter, please elaborate since this may or may not be a lost cause depending on the details (just my opinion).

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"Don't count the days, make the days count." -Ali
#rydyrstrong

Cole & IMAKEWK - See the document in the hyperlink below.  This is a better reference for Worm Reef.  Chapter 4.2 addresses sessile suspension feeders or worm reef.

We've been photographing the worm reef at the North jetty every month since 2009.  Look at Figure 4.9 in the PDF link to see the worm reef's growth cycle.

The idea at the inlet is to close the gaps at the base of the pilings by placing panels for worm reef to grow on.  The state park already has permits in place to grow barnacles on panels in the IRL.  This is part of ongoing research at FIT.

2009 Worm Reef Study. See Chapter 4

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Seems to me like a fella could always go to mexico to get some worm reef whenever he needed some

 

Edited: 11/04/2017 at 11:35 AM by NorwayNorty

Yeah, a cheap prototype is a terrible idea. [sarcasm intended]

Hey catpiss, for $500. you could use marine grade plywood.

Thanx Chop-troll-a; Im sure the FPP will take your sound "contractors" advice and get Marine grade PT, and top notch hemp rope, and 3M duct tape!! That'll fix it!! Appreciate you donating your impressive "2 Cents"!!!??????

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

Edited: 11/02/2017 at 12:30 PM by MyCatSprays

I enjoy a good session at Ponce from time to time, apparently so does the Tipper, who can be seen there from time to time as well. Closest thing around to what the old Inlet was, when Ponce is working right.

I've often wondered what would happen if the Inlet were changed to literally the Ponce scale and dimension. Emulate the entire thing at Sebastian. It would likely make a huge point-like sand bar on a stretch of coast that's pretty sand bar barren otherwise.

North, How would they possibly be able to make Sebastian as wide and as long as Ponce? Unless the Army Core of Idiot Engineers came in and fucked it all up like they did at Oregon Inlet on the OBX!!! It's implausible!! Not to rude you; It just is!!! The Gulf Stream is 20 to 50 miles off your beach. It can be 2 off Sebastian, and we get the reverb upwelling from the Cape. Whole different dynamic!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

Plus North, that would be 50 to a 100 million plus and be Government pork/regulation infused, and then you have the Turtle Huggers that can shut shit down with a quickness!!! These smart kids have a feasible, non in nor e vasive idea for under 500K. I say it's worth a donation and a look!! Download their PDF and go to their website and really check it out!!! Good Read!!!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

I'm sure it is. I hope they can pull it off.

I'm just saying, I've day dreamed about more inlets, for one thing, and inlets which are set up to guarantee good conditions. More piers and structures too. Especially in that barren zone between Vero and Melbourne beach which has open ocean swell access but very little in the way of structure and sandbars.

More inlets are probably a no go.  

Piers have potential.

Piers are nice because they only delay longshore sand flow,

not disrupt it.  

 

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

Proof of concept prototype. If it worked you would have no problem raising the money. You can spend as much as you like on the experiment, I say less $ is better.

I've become a glutten for structure surfing going into mid age. This is all a lot of preaching to choir as far as I'm concerned.

I'd love me some old Sebastian again. I'd love me some old school New Smyrna again, some of these millennials don't even understand the shit they're now riding. I'd love me some old school, pre-mass-dredging Brevard county, including the old school pier. The old school streets, through the late 90's. Something happened over time and many places when to shit, not all at once, but at different times and for various reasons. But in the general trend of entropy down the east coast.

Breaks burning out, one after another.

The wave at Sebastian is an artificial wave no matter how you describe it. That should be obvious just because of the existence of the jetty and artificial inlet. There is no "natural" accumulation of sand because there is nothing "natural" about the wave. You can have either a good artificial wave or a crappy one. Right now it is a crappy wave. Installing the reflective panels as a demonstrator project is a cost effective way to determine if the idea is feasible. If it works we can have a great wave again.

.