Sad

http://news.brevardtimes.com/2...ive-fish-kill-in.html

It's just getting started, wait until the water reaches the 80's.

Funding was just cut, it appears our governor doesn't think the investment was worth the return.

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I was right.

Not a suprise given the current bloom

and Sunday's rain.

Fertilizer comments in the article are spot on.

indeed

 

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

It's all the manatees' fault.

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Peace, Love and SOUL!

Thread in the fishing forum. This bloom has been going for months. Just been waiting for the bloom to collapse and cause a kill and wondering why people wait for the carcasses to start floating before they get concerned.

http://www.2ndlight.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=169365&enterthread=y

I paddled in the race on March 12th by the 520 and then I took out of town guests to 1000 islands to tour around. My description of the bloom in those locations was "incomprehensibly bad". Looked worse than Lake Jesup/Apopka usually do.

 

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...

in spring to summer people usually start fertilizing their lawns too,  is this going to get even worse?

Without proper funding and awareness for people to be more careful about what they put into the earth our ecosystem is going to get screwed

I haven't fertilized my lawn for years.   The bloom is bad news for sure. 

I have been here since 1958 and I am afraid it is a lost cause.  The septic tanks and old leaky pipes in the sewer system probably cause the most damage, not the fertilizers.

The cost to lay new pipes and get everybody off septic tanks is not a price we are willing to pay, sad but true.

 

 

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JMA

Some simple numbers:

About 90,000 septic systems in Brevard, at 10lbs nitrogen / person / year for 3 people

is about 2.7M lbs nitrogen to the environment.

About 270,000 single family homes in Brevard, at 10lbs nitrogen / 5000 ft^2 yard / year from fertilizer 

is about 2.7M lbs nitrogen to the environment.

About the same amount, but,

which is easier to live without, indoor plumbing or St. Augustine grass?

ie - we can fix about 1/2 of the entire problem, starting today.

Support the ban.

edit: fixed an oops

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

Edited: 03/21/2016 at 12:32 PM by tom

I'd like to think people could stop and help the situation, but I'm beginning to believe flushing is the only answer

But this happened a 100 years ago to the lagoon. Probably not fertilizer or septic tanks...

Link?


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I was right.

Tom thanks for the numbers. that really puts it in perspective.

Not just fertilizer and polluted groundwater discharge into rivers, but non-pointsource pollution / stormwater runoff is probably the biggest problem.  A well maintaineds spetic system is probably not a problem.  Cocoa Beach (and maybe other towns) situated so close to surface waters could do better at reigning in non-point source pollution.  For example, bring back the parking meters & charge for parking on pavement so close to surface waters, dedicating the revenue to addressing non-pointsource pollution, whether it's increease education or exploring treatment and reuse of stormwater.  Pollution is an expensive business - charge those that insist on parking at the beach.  I would not be surprised if storm water runoff from a parking lot filled with hydrocarbons is more toxic & harmful to water resources than much of the household wastewater going to the treatment plant.          

Make a new inlet to the ocean?

Copy clipped: Throw Back Thursday ... Sebastian Inlet - Early 1960's - Bridge Being Built ... The Inlet was begun in 1872 in order to bring clean water into the IRL. The first attempt by settlers to open an inlet at Sebastian took place in 1872. It was orchestrated by David Peter Gibson. Although Gibson first dug a cut at Sebastian in 1872 he did not acquire title to the property where the digging took place until May, 1885. Gibson's Cut, as his inlet was known then, appears as a feature in a U.S. National Geodetic Survey map drawn in the winter of 1880-81. Mention of Gibson's Cut appears in James Henshall's 1881 tale "Cruise of the Rambler" when he relates how "Sailing out of St. Sebastian River into Indian River, a break in the coast line opposite can be seen, which is the beginning of an attempt by settlers in the vicinity to cut an inlet to the sea." Since Henshall was only passing through there was no way he could know that the "break in the coast line" he saw wasn't the "beginning" but the end result of the effort to dig the cut from nearly a decade earlier. In the July 28, 1886 edition of the Florida Star letter writer G. W. Idner reports that talk was once again circulating about re-opening Gibson's Cut. When faced with foreclosure on the barrier island property that held his cut, he transferred title to his son, Quinn, but lost the property anyway. At the time of D. P. Gibson's first effort the barrier island was about 260 feet (79 m) wide at the cut site. It widened considerably over the years as efforts to open an inlet continued. During the summer of 1891 the second attempt to open an Inlet at Sebastian took place. By that time the barrier island had grown to be 450 feet (140 m) wide at the cut site. This would indicate that several other efforts had been mounted since 1872 although no records of these attempts have yet been found. Some of the folks involved with the 1891 effort were "Nesbitt...Harris and Williamson [of] Micco [along with] Knight, Gibson, Eason, Jacobs and Mitchell" all of Sebastian. They formed the St. Sebastian Inlet Association but they never succeeded in opening the inlet although they spent considerable money and time on the project. An 1892 article read as follows: "Col. D. P. Gibson, the pioneer settler in this section, says he will cut an inlet through to the Atlantic, and as the distance is only about 120 yards, it will only take a short time to make this very valuable improvement, and it is the general opinion that Col. Gibson will make a success of it." In 1897 some winter residents of Brevard county made the third effort to open the inlet. It was the most ambitious so far. In that year The Roseland Inlet Corporation was formed to open an inlet to the sea at Gibson's Cut. The Corporation's Board of Directors included purchased the entire Fleming Grant in 1892 for $5,050 ($122565.37 in 2015 dollars). Todd broke the Fleming Grant up and sold tracts to his New Rochelle business acquaintances who then formed the Roseland Inlet Association. They saw the Inlet as an essential fixture for the drainage of their swampland and a convenient access to the Atlantic for their sailboats. Although the Roseland Inlet Corporation dug a partial cut across the island it was never completed. The fourth attempt at opening Gibson's Cut began in 1899. Called "The Sebastian Inlet Association," it was organized at Eau Gallie. Although several thousand dollars were spent and work went on at the inlet well into 1900 this group's efforts to open the Sebastian Inlet met with failure. The fifth effort to open the inlet took place in 1901. A newspaper article read: "Another attempt is to be made to open the inlet at Gibson's cut." By Early October there had been enough rainfall to cause high water levels in the lagoon. High water in the lagoon was considered essential for opening the Inlet. Some locals went to work on the cut with shovels an explosive charge in an effort to try and open it. By the start of the 20th century water quality in the entire Lagoon north of the narrows was diminishing. Algae blooms were killing the fish and the oysters population was disappearing...... History hasn't recorded exactly who was behind the sixth effort to open an inlet to the sea at Sebastian. A newspaper report mentions a dredge and a completion date prior to October 13, 1905. In the same issue another article declared "The people in the vicinity of Sebastian succeeded yesterday in opening an inlet to the ocean, through the narrow peninsular opposite the mouth of the Sebastian river. Between 40 and 100 men have been engaged in the work all the week. The value of this inlet to the ocean to the people from the Narrows to Eau Gallie cannot be estimated in dollars and cents." The following week's paper stated that "Water continues to run from the river to the ocean through the new inlet. There was apprehension that it would "cave" faster than the sand would be carried out." Their fear was well founded as the high sand banks at the cut site continually washed down into it. It wasn't long before the Inlet again filled with sand. By 1909 population increases and numerous drainage projects had further degraded the Lagoon's water quality. Many residents saw the inlet as an answer to allow clean seawater in to flush out the filth. To accomplish this, funds were raised. The nearby success of Fort Pierce dredging encouraged the supporters. But it failed to raise sufficient support. By 1914 the lagoon system was nearly a dead body of water. Some circulated a petition among their neighbors in the spring of 1914 asking for an appropriation of $1,200 to open the inlet. Over 100 names were gathered on the petition and a delegation of over 40 individuals from the South end of the county then presented it to the Brevard County Commissioner's at their April 1914 meeting. Among the delegation of 40 who spoke in favor of the Inlet were Roy Couch and Edson B. Arnold. It is likely that both of these men were instrumental in putting the petition drive together. The County Commissioners promised to "...give it their united attention, and look up the law on the matter...." Memories of all the previous expensive failures were still too fresh. Some felt that there was a greater need for good roads than there was for an inlet which would "only benefit the fish business." Hopes for an inlet were raised in 1914 when it became known that "Congressman L'Engle introduced a bill appropriating $5,000 to make a survey of several places including Sebastian, to open an inlet to aid the fishing industry. This reinforced the impression that inlet would benefit a select group while costing uninterested taxpayers money. A lack of funds and essential permits required by the federal government prevented any actual work on the inlet from taking place during 1914.... By 1915 the Sebastian Inlet issue was a topic on which many county residents had developed an opinion. Residents in the northern portion of Brevard county were largely opposed. To dispose of their resistance some residents from the south Brevard tried to again[clarification needed] split the county in thirds. These plans were submitted to the state legislature by some Brevardians who made an appearance at the capitol with petitions and maps detailing the split Their plan saw Brevard carved into three counties. Which would have been named, from north to south, Brevard, Hudson and Indian River. Titusville would have remained Brevard's county seat, Cocoa would have become the county seat for Hudson county, named in honor of the senator who was to sponsor the bill, and Melbourne was to be the county seat of Indian River county. This did not happen. The United States Army Corps of Engineers objected to the idea of the Sebastian Inlet for several reasons. The chosen location presented the distinct possibility that once the cut was opened it would cause sand shoals to form in the Indian river and block the East Coast Canal. The Corps was obliged to maintain the East Coast Canal at that time and didn't want the extra expense of dredging out new shoals. Additionally they disagreed with the idea that the inlet would be dug, as had the East Coast Canal, using private funds which they viewed as a precursor to failure. The Corps insisted that for them to approve such a plan a local tax district would have to be created to raise funds for the inlets maintenance so that federal tax money wouldn't be needed. Mainly because of the lack of a tax district the Corps continued to deny Inlet supporters their needed War Department permit all through 1915. The Inlet's supporters wouldn't take a "no" from the Army Corps and persisted with their efforts to be granted a permit to dig the Sebastian Inlet. They repeatedly petitioned the government and were granted several public hearings to discuss the inlet issue at greater length during that year. Perhaps hoping to help persuade the Corps to grant a permit for digging to begin Jessie Goode volunteered to grant an easement across her barrier island property for the new cut. If her offer had been accepted the inlet would have been called "The Goode Sebastian Inlet" in honor of her late husband. Two things important to the Sebastian Inlet plans occurred in 1916. The Corps agreed to grant a permit for a private consortium to proceed with work on the Inlet if they could post a $20,000 indemnity bond to cover the cost of the Corps repairing the East Coast Canal should the Inlet cause shoals to form and a wealthy physician, Dr. Hughlett, from Cocoa was elected to the state senate. Hughlett had been a friend of Couch's for some years and Couch knew his election meant that an ear sympathetic to the need for the Sebastian Inlet was in Tallahassee. Several important events occurred in 1917 that concerned the Sebastian Inlet. One of these events was when Mrs. C. H. Holderman started another newspaper in Brevard county after selling the one she had published in Manatee county for some years. On March 22 the first edition of her new publication, the "Cocoa Tribune" hit the streets. Holderman was 1 of only 3 women in Florida who edited a newspaper at that time. She was an outspoken advocate of women's suffrage and unafraid of taking a stand on other controversial subjects as well. She exhibited an unrestrained disdain for burdensome taxation and used the pages of her publication to relay her feelings on the subject to her readers. Holderman's "Cocoa Tribune" came out every Thursday. In her 3rd edition, that of April 5, 1917 a large front page article appeared that openly called for the digging of several inlets along Brevard's coastline, including one at Sebastian. Couch's lobbying, Holderman's editorial support and that of other editors in the area led Florida's legislature to draft, and pass, the Indian River Inlet Bill during its 1917 session. Known also as the Hughlett-Rodes inlet bill it called for a special election to let the voters in Brevard county decide whether or not to go ahead and allocate tax money for continued engineering studies of the inlets feasibility. The election was scheduled to be held on August 21, 1917. Holderman's support for the Sebastian Inlet waned once she became aware of its dismal history. Subsequent issues of the Cocoa Tribune carried only criticism of the bill and the Inlets that would result if the bill became law. Most of the other newspaper editors in North Brevard also opposed the idea and let everyone know of their beliefs in no uncertain terms. Only one editor in the county's northern reaches, W. B. Dobson of the Cocoa Star, was very much in favor of the bill. No doubt this was because he was to become one of the three commissioners on the board should the inlet district become reality. As the August election drew close the inlet bill was a hotter, and more frequently discussed topic than was the 1st World War. Sections 6 and 7 of the bill were found particularly objectionable because they seemed to give the commissioners unlimited power to increase taxes and condemn land. When the election was held the bill lost. The majority of voters against it were in the north end of Brevard county. The bill would have succeeded had it only been up to the voters in the south end of the county. As discouraging as this defeat must have been for Couch, it didn't keep him from continuing to push for the Sebastian Inlet. Fish were scarce and this scarcity combined with the food shortage caused by the War meant a lot of families in the Indian River area were going hungry. On April 25, 1918 the Sebastian Inlet Association was created at a meeting held in Sebastian. Although it was a privately funded entity, its creation, and Roys perpetual lobbying, must have been good enough for the War Department because only 2 days later it finally granted a permit to dig the Sebastian Inlet. Stipulations listed on the permit included one demanding that if any shoaling should occur in the East Coast Canal as a result of the inlet the Association would have to remove the shoals. Even so, the permit still required a $10,000 bond be posted. The seventh effort to open an inlet at Sebastian proceeded as rapidly as possible once the long awaited permit was granted. There were several reasons to hurry and complete the project. Not only was it felt that high water in the Indian River was essential for the Inlet to be opened, but the War Department permit expired on December 31, 1918. High water levels usually were reached in late summer or early fall, only 5 or 6 months away. An article that appeared in the May 1, 1918 issue of the Melbourne Times named the "officers of the Sebastian Inlet Association [as]: President, R.O. Couch, Grant; Secretary, Carl Schlichtinger, St. Lucie County; and Treasurer, Allen Campbell, Roseland. This same article declared that no public money would be used in the effort, but only a few weeks had passed before Ernest Svedelius appeared before the County Commissioners of Brevard and St. Lucie counties to request that each of these bodies contribute $1,000 toward the inlet. No funds were forthcoming from either. Because of the lack of funds in the Associations account Couch took it upon himself to build a 6 inches (150 mm) suction dredge at his marine ways in Grant. He also hired Charles W. Sembler to dredge out the cut. No sooner was the inlet open in 1918 than it was again filled with sand and debris. There were a number of influential citizens in the area who were steadfastly opposed to opening the Sebastian Inlet. Among them were grove owners such as A. B. Michael of Orchid. Michael was opposed to it for several reasons. One, he saw opening an inlet to the ocean as something that would forever change the fragile ecology of the Indian River Lagoon. At that time it was almost a body of fresh water. He was also concerned that the influx of salt water would ruin the fresh water wells essential for his groves. Cattlemen on the mainland nearby also shared a fear that their fresh water wells would be ruined, but the most powerful opponent to the opening was by far Henry Flagler's Florida East Coast Rail Road that feared salt water in the lagoon would mean teredoes in the pilings of their rail road trestles that crossed the areas fresh water rivers. At any rate, it wasn't but a couple of days after the Sebastian Inlet was opened that someone organized several boatloads of men from the Narrows to Ft. Pierce into an Inlet destruction crew. ...... One evening they loaded lanterns, shovels, saws, pick-axes, dynamite and chains, maybe even a mule or two, into boats and headed to the newly opened Sebastian Inlet. There they cut cabbage palms and any other tree they could find, dragged them into the cut and placed a lot of dynamite along the banks. Once the dynamite was set off it blew sand into the inlet sufficiently to plug it up! Couch committed another dredge to the project and work continued through the winter, even past the December 31 expiration date of the permit. Before long word of the projects continuance past the permits expiration date reached the War Department and this agency was not amused. Every one of the Sebastian Inlet Association's board members and the dredge crews found themselves threatened with arrest if the work wasn't halted promptly. With the two dredges still at work Couch and some other influential citizens set out for Washington, D.C. where they approached Senator Duncan U. Fletcher and lobbied him to work on the War Department and obtain another permit. The Sebastian Inlet Tax District came into being in 1919 after the new bill had been approved in an election and on August 31, 1920 this new agency was granted a permit to dig which would remain valid until December 31, 1923.[citation needed] The Tax District's first $100,000 bond issue was delayed by court injunctions brought by some wealthy property owners and the F.E.C. but not even that delay stopped work on the inlet. Within several years the bond issue was approved, the inlet was opened sometime in June 1923 and several months later the Sebastian Inlet Tax District obtained permission from the land owner (Milton Hardee) to dig the inlet. It has been a continual struggle of man against the elements ever since just to keep the inlet open.

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Matt B :)

Wow. My head is spinning from reading that!

Wouldn't it be awesome if they cut an inlet and built a jetty with bottom boulders contoured to create an outstanding surfing wave?

Kill 2 birds with one stone.

I would think that the influx of ocean water would have an effect on the natural environment in the river. Could it be any worse than what we are reading about now with the fish kills? I doubt it but what do I know.

Truth, hope you are doing well. Keep at it!

Fertilizer is always the go-too scapegoat for the lagoon problem. Makes sense to blame a bunch of ignorant homeowners and the stereotype of a guy pouring five times the necessary amount is all too easy to accept. But something doesnt add up. We are coming out of the winter season, where growth is at its slowest and even the most ignorant moron knows you really dont fertilize in the winter. Its a total waste of money and even Joe six pack gets that. Also run-off, even during a super wet season like we just had is at its lowest during the winter compared to summer when it can rain four inches in one day. SO why is this happening now instead of, say the second or third week of September. The ban ends last day of August. Homeowner fertilization must be off the charts during the beginning of Sept and it still rains a ton. Factor in that businesses, golf courses, county and city governments are exempt from the ban and it kinda gets sketchy to blame this on homeowners abusing fertilizer. I smell something fishy...

That is because it underlies and is exacerbated by everything else that is affecting the lagoon.

What we are seeing is a fairly classic case of eutrophication and possibly a switch to an altered stable state of phytoplankton dominance that has already occurred in most of Florida's freshwater lakes and the lower St. Johns River from Lake George to Jacksonville. The bloom events become longer and more frequent until recovery of submerged vegetation does not occur anymore between events. Lake Apopka flipped after a hurricane. Chesapeake Bay flipped after flooding from a tropical depression in 1972.

This bloom started last fall and grew throughout the winter. Water quality was bad off and on all summer here in Rockledge. We had two small fish kills. The species blooming in summer did differ from this bloom that started in November. This bloom consists of a species that flourishes with warm water and lower light. It liked the warm November/December. It was fueled by record rains in December-January. Then we went for 5-6 weeks with virtually no rain right when the water temp jumped up into the upper 70s.  Once the sun angle got high and the water got warm the bloom grew like crazy. By last weekend the water looked like mustard. It out grew its immediate nutrient supply and a plankton die-off occured. The automated monitoring stations that Tom linked in the other thread demonstrate this algae die-off quite well.

It's not just blaming homeowners. Everyone has skin in this game. Everyone also wants to blame everybody else. It is exactly the environment that I grew up in in Virginia with the Chesapeake Bay.

The mangrove swamps that used to absorb nutrients are now tract housing in CCB, South Patrick, a lot of north MI. That bell isn't going to be unrung. But you have a case there where a nutrient sink has been replaced with a source. People and municipalities could do a much better job of reducing nutrient loads.

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Thank you scombrid for that explanation. Nice to have it explained that way. You sound like you have a solid backround in the sciences involved and I appreciate your knowledge. I do see a majority of the blame falling on homeowners and rarely a mention of those exempt from the ban etc.

Ornamental fertilizer is "low hanging fruit" on the scale of difficulty for remedies for water quality problems. Reconstructing mangrove swamps to replace that which is now canals and houses isn't going to happen. Getting everybody hooked up to a wastewater system so that nutrients are removed from household wash and toilet water is hard and expensive. And so on.

Of course, restricting fertilizer potentially impacts lawn management companies and that is big business around here. They don't want to hear it. It is definitely costing me personal time and money at the house we bought two years ago. I am slowly converting away from St. Augustine grass to something that won't turn yellow by July 4 up on this sand dune that I live on in Rockledge. Previous owners had no landscaping, just 0.4 acres of a type of grass that gets really mad if you don't feed it during the wet season.

There are Basin Management Action Plans for the central and north IRL and the BRL. They are fairly comprehensive. If you noticed your water bill having an extra "stormwater assessment fee" tacked on it last year that was mandated by the BMAPs to raise money for better stormwater management.

There is a page on the DEP website with links to all of the BMAPs in the state. They are long and boring but they lay out estimates of sources of water qualtiy problems and cost to fix them. There are also progress reports that summarize activities toward achieving the action items in the plans.

 

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It's just my personal opinion but I think that the ban was just a token thing to drawn attention to the problem. It isn't enforced I don't think. I'm not sure that it can be enforced. It is just trying to let people know that their practices on their property affect downstream water quality.

I would be happy if homeowners that self maintain and that hire lawn guys would make sure and blow leaves and clippings back into yards. I'd be really happy if they'd bust out a broom or blower and not leave fertilizer granuals on sidewalks, driveway, street.

I blow the oaks leaves out of the street into my yard before I mow. Then after I mow I get the leave blowing out again and blow the clippings back into the grass. I'm sure the neighbors think I'm odd running the leaf blower twice  per mowing like that. During the big spring oak leaf drop I vacuum the leaves out of the street and mulch them into my back beds. Meanwhile, the old guy across the street takes all the leaves out of his yard and piles them in the street. I think he may have finally realized that the trash guys don't pick up leaves that are piled loose. I don't think he has any concept that nature would rather those leaves be composted back into the sand under the tree from which they can rather than wash down the hill into the river.

Anyway, it is a big problem with a lot things at which to point fingers but there are little things that us peons can do. And I'm not passionate about much but I am passionate about this. I'd be out paddling right now before work instead of reading the forum before work if I didn't have a whicked fever. I'm out there pretty much every day either before or after work or both weekends too. unless the waves are good and then I'll make the treck across to the beach. Aside from it being my personal recreational space I recognize the impact that it has on the livelihood of Rockledge and Cocoa and other waterfront towns. Nobody wants to go to a concert at the park if it reaks of rotting fish. Nobody wants to rent paddle boards to paddle on chocolate pudding. Heck, our property value 5 houses up the street from the river is impacted by how pretty it is for people to walk to the end of the street and sit on the bench and watch the sun come up or watch the rocket launch or (like us) launch kayaks/SUPs to go paddle. One guy on my street launches at the end of the street to shoot ducks. Although I will say that the bluebills didn't seem to mind the turbid water this past duck season.

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Edited: 03/22/2016 at 04:02 AM by scombrid

"SO why is this happening now instead of, say the second or third week of September. The ban ends last day of August. Homeowner fertilization must be off the charts during the beginning of Sept and it still rains a ton."

" gets sketchy to blame this on homeowners abusing fertilizer "

 

Scombrid lays out the reason we're seeing this now,

the short term event, a fish kill,

is a symptom of a much slower, gradual change few notice, eutrophication.

It's been going on for decades.

And,

It's not "abuse" of fertilizer that's the problem.  

The fertilizer number I put on the first page

is the IFAS recommended rate for fertilizer application to St. Augustine lawns,

not over application, ie, fertilizer use, not abuse.

Look around, we grow very little that we eat here in Brevard.

Essentially, all the fertilizer is used for ornamental (unnecessary) purposes (lawns),

and contributes to the eutrophication of the Lagoon.  

If we eliminated it, we could take a huge bite out of the eutrophicaiton process.

Fertilizer. Just don't do it.  It is the "low hanging fruit".

(and yes of course, hook septic up to sewer and

OMG!! reduce the nitrogen and phos in the reuse water!)

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

So if if gets bad enough (there is now coverage on the Orlando news stations which is a good thing) what are the chances of what everyone who uses the ocean/river wants.....A new inlet cut around PAFB? 

The cost would be huge with cutting an inlet , building up the structure to prevent fill-in,  building a bridge over it , road closures for months.  Price of land to have the inlet , etc.   I think a complete collapse will have to occurr for the idea of flushing to be the only answeer, then again would flushing really help? Will the salt water intrusion into the IRL cause more issues?

 

As surfers we want another inlet of course.  Will it happen in my lifetime?

St. Johns River Water Management District commissioned a study on "flushing". They paid an engineer to model a bunch of different scenarios. There's a story about it in FL Today. Cliffs notes version. Cutting an inlet will only have water quality effects near the inlet.Tide comes in, tide goes out. No general flushing. There will also be the increase storm surge risk with the new opening plus knockon down drift beach erosion effects.

Can't leave the locks open at the Port because they aren't designed for that.

Best flushing scenario comes from multiple small inlets or pipes that let water in when the ocean tide is high but do not flow in the reverse. Maybe even achieve the effect with pump stations. This creates a south flowing current that exchanges the water in the river more rapidly.

All are very expensive. All have drawbacks such as altering the salinity regime and creating erosion issue and the price of condemning/confiscating expensive real estate to build the projects.

The best thing for the lagoon is a healthy supply of clean fresh water. That means that we need to irrigate less so that there is a ground water supply during droughts so the lagoon doesn't go hypersaline. We need to curtail the numerous sources of extra nutrients to the shallow ground water. Storm water needs to be cleaner and stored so that it doesn't hit the lagoon all at once and loaded with extra juice. Easy to say, super expensive to achieve.

I posted that thread in the fishing forum back in January because I was marvelling that there was no noise about the algae bloom. I figured then that it would take a pile up of carcasses to get the public's attention. Well, the public attention is being drawn to the smell. When the smoke clears will there be any progress on halting the march of eutrophication?

 

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We rarely ever cross the bridge to mainland these days unless it's in darkness on way to Arnold Palmer, but went over 192 cswy today and the dead fish and sea life was everywhere floating on the surface and along the shorelines... Awful

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"Don't count the days, make the days count." -Ali
#rydyrstrong

+1 on Certon's view. I had never seen it like that before. I asked my dad is been here for over 60 years and he said he's never actually seen floating dead fish like there are today in the river. Of course countless times seeing dead fish and critters on the bank but not the way it looks today with white dots as far as you can see that are dead fish. I think this might be more than just a fish kill we are seeing, more like a lagoon kill. I'm not sold on any of the explanations, I personally think the ASR injection wells have more to do with it than anything else but that is just my opinion. But the fact is neither I or my family Who has been here for generations as ever seen it this bad

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Matt B :)

Scombird - you hit it - Florida's addiction to dealing with wastewater and stormwater as cheaply as possible, provided it meets water quality standards.

Start treating stormwater, and stop dealing with watewater on the cheap (i.e. injection wells).  Taxpayers will have to pay - or get tourists to pay.  Too bad our lawmakers and much of the electorate hate spending money on the environment.            

Truth, that's one really interesting read! Thanks for posting.

What's the source on that, and are there any more similar articles about the counties' history? I need some more bedtime reading material.

A question for anyone that's read the article: The story mentions that in the early 1900s, the IRL was mostly fresh water, and citrus grove owners and cattle ranchers opposed the Sebastian Inlet because they were worried about salt water intrusion in their wells....

I'm under the impression that there were numerous Native American oyster mounds in the county, near the IRL. Do oysters grow in 'mostly fresh' water? Or was there possibly a cut in the barrier island at one point that allowed oysters to grow, only to be filled in later?

Edited: 03/27/2016 at 05:43 PM by DaveFL76

I wish some of you on this site would wake the heck up. The people you love and trust, and whose words you drink in, as if they are an oracle of the gods, hate you and want to kill you - and the enviroment, despite what they preach. All they want is power and they make up sweet sounding(and clever) lies that are exactky what you want to hear. They preach conservation as they poison the air, the water and our food every day all day. They are waiting for you to continue to give up your freedoms in order for them to solve the problems they have intentionally created. Order will come from chaos...and we will be their serfs(not surfs, sadly). Wake up people. This isn't conspiracy...it is fact. We are all in for a rough ride, and it's our fault because we are 

Edited: 03/27/2016 at 08:36 PM by ummm

I was talking with my pops about what cause this to happen,"All of a sudden" and he said what do you mean, "All of a sudden?"

He told me of how the complex pool, and golf course area used to be a dump/landfill!

Years of waste caused this, it will take years to fix if possible.....

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I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

I have some a lot of comments on FB that this is due to the Army Corps of Engineers releasing freshwater from LaKe Okeechobee into the intracoastal, because the height of the lake was too high by one foot. How much of this kill could be attributed to that? Or is that way off base.

Really appreciate the informed discussion here.

thanks,

The Lake O discharges are extremely harmful to the southern end of IRL, but no scientists I have spoken with feel that those effects extend north to Melbourne and points north.

In a classic case of government inaction, last year our legislature passed on the opportunity to buy US Sugar land that would have been the pathway to get Lake O water south into the Everglades. It would have helped the 'Glades, and stopped the discharges east and west that foul estuaries on both coasts. But nooo, our governor and the legislature allowed the option to buy the property expire. Amendment One $$s were sitting there to be used and our government bowed to Big Sugar.

 

Our algae bloom is home grown and really got cranking long before this winter's round of Lake O discharges got going. Lake O water doesn't make it this far north.

Really long story made as short as possible about Lake O water management:

The waters within Herbert Hoover dyke are managed first for flood control and second for water supply. The Army Corps tries to hold the lake high in the dry season to maximize the amount of water available for use. Then the lake is dropped as the wet season approaches to make room to store wet season flood water and provide a cushion for tropical systems.

When we get El Nino rains in winter then the lake is already high then the Corps is legally required to get rid of the excess.

If you want the full version look up the "System Operating Manual" for Lake Okeechobee. It is the legally binding guide for how the Army Corps of Engineers has to operate the lake.

The only remedy for the Lake O discharges is that there has to be somewhere to store and treat stormwater and that is where the massive aquisition of land south of the lake is needed. Of course making it so that Lake O water is cleaner would help too.

 

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I went 100 m past Mathers bridge on my bike tonight and turned around.  Whew, let's hope those high dollar riverside tenants get some eartime with the local representatives.

Check out Ecosense  http://ecosenseint.com/  and the rival company Suntree

Two local companies that make storm water baffle boxes that separate/collect solid waste and have filters to treat water before it is released.  A very simple idea that never seemed to take off, they sold many but they do have to be maintained (filters cleaned).  it sits at the very end point of the discharge paths for storm water.  State needs to mandate the use of these baffle boxes but they most likley will not due to cost and maintenance.  A simple solution is out there but the dollars will not flow to it.

It is baffling why this is not enforced, I remeber during a heavy rain we could throw a tennis ball in the gutter on 4th south, watch it get sucked down the drain, and pop out into the canal on Westview Ln!

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I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

yeah, crazy! aint it?

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Water dissolving...and water removing
There is water at the bottom of the ocean

I in no way believe that baffle boxes are ''the answer'', but....

Many of them were installed under the SWIM program (Surface Water Improvement and Management) back in the mid-90s.

Last I heard a couple of years ago the trucks Brevard County used to clean out the boxes were sitting idle due to budget cuts. Another short-sighted decision by our government.....

From what I've read the "new inlet, flush idea" won't work. This is a lagoon estuary, the sea grasses need a specific ph to grow. The lagoon needs flushed with fresh water. My wife just said the county is setting up dumpsters and looking for volunteers to clean up the carnage. don't have specifics though

This lagoon functions best with a quality supply of fresh water.

Simply starving it of fresh water or flushing it with sea water will not restore it. It needs good ground water during dry spells which means we need to stop pumping so hard on the shallow aquifer to water our lawns. It also means that we need to stop contaminating the ground water.

Then it needs good surface water which means the storm water needs to not run in all at once off of impervious surfaces and the storm water needs to not be carrying a load of $&!@ with it.

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Baffle boxes, rain gardens, street sweeping, all nice,

but if you want to control a pollutant, 

best place to go is the source.

Very little lead in the air you breathe right now,

because we burn unleaded gas in our cars.

Anybody old enough to remember how the auto industry screamed,

Cars can't run without lead!!! Or with catalytic converters!!!

Really?

My '04 nissan gets better mileage and has 3x the HP, (and is way safer) than my '68 beetle back in the day. 

In the case of the Lagoon, the pollutants are nitrogen and phosphorus,

and there are only 3 sources:

Atmospheric deposition, human / animal waste, and fertilizer.  

Chose one (or two!) and eliminate them.

Then the Lagoon will improve.  

Go for the source.

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

My wife just said the county is setting up dumpsters and looking for volunteers to clean up the carnage.

Leave them where they are and let them stink. When tourism numbers fall and riverfront property prices plummet, the state might actually wake up and do something.

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I was right.

 

Get the address of your local state rep and rent a dump truck. You can see where this is going can't you? Oh and dump a big bag of rotting putrified fish on their door step!

that and ...mo mangroves!!

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Water dissolving...and water removing
There is water at the bottom of the ocean

In the end, , , , , , , , we'll be no-better-off than Rio is now, , , , as an old, very wise, Good Old Boy once said, , , , , , , , the shit, , , , , has GOT TO FLOW, , , , ,.

Oh, and, , , , , , , , this whole situation really is pretty bad, , , , , but what's worse is looking at the development of this area as being "under utilized" !!!!!!!!!

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Dora Hates You

Not good.   

Slideaway is right.  To vote GOP is to vote against the environment.  At least two of their Presidential candidates did say they would do away with the EPA.  They are the party of denial when it comes to climate change.  You can be both pro capitalism and pro environment.  They just see any reg as anti bottom line.  We can be better.

I would like to propose two other suspects for this fish kill. One - the cement plants in Melbourne and Palm Bay. I wonder how much phosphorus they dump? And the second is the beach dredge and fill projects. Water is known to seep from the IRL to the ocean underground through porous limestone. What if the dredged sand block that up, keeping the pollutants in the IRL? Are there tests being done on the nitrogen content in our beach sand?

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http://www.crsurf.com ~ CR Surf Travel Company

http://www.vacationsbygreg.com
Instagram - @crsurf

One of Rick Scott's first actions when he was elected was an executive order to suspend the rule that the previous legislature had passed requiring regular (5 year) inspection of septic systems.

Tally has made no move to push ahead with the Basin Management Action Plans for achieving nutrient reduction. Those plans were finalized in 2013.

Butt, recollect that pretty much everybody in Tallahassee from Governor to the Legislative body were re-elected in 2014. That is after nothing was done following the superbloom of 2011 and the Lake O discharges of 2013... I reckon that means that they are serving the majority of Florida voters and most people are happy with the way things are.

People keep complaining about DEP and FWC inaction on things like this. People got exactly the DEP and FWC for which they voted. Scott an company re-organized the water management districts prior to the 2014 elections. They got re-elected. Public must like the water management districts in their current role of serving the will of a handful of large companies.

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Edited: 03/24/2016 at 05:32 AM by scombrid

Greg - 

Permitting info for industrial wastewater discharges by the concrete plants and others is available at FDEP.

As is info on any FDEP permitted activity.

Look up the "Facility ID" (column C) in the spreadsheets found under "Facility Information" link, right side of this page

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/Water/wastewater/iw/index.htm

then use the Facility ID find the permitting info,

including sampling data if required by permit,

on the Oculus website here:  

http://depedms.dep.state.fl.us/Oculus/servlet/login?loginState=loginInvalidPassword

Login by using the "Public Oculus Login" button instead of a password

It's clunky, but what do you expect from the govt.

 

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

My understanding is that the dead fish will release additional nutrients into the water if they are left to rot. Those nutrients will only fuel the algae for a longer bloom.

Yea, that's not a good thing, the river needs all the help it can get, but I think we are just seeing the beginning and it's going to get so bad that a clean up will be an impossibility.

I won't be surprised if we start to see marine mammals and birds stricken by this blight in the near future.

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I was right.

I'm just gonna leave this here....... Who's really at fault?

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Instagram.com/Mels_Big_Racks

A tragedy of epic proportions in our own backyards.  I feel sick...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kDqKp0oMt0

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Surfing is my passion...obsesssion... addiction! Can't imagine life without it!

The phosphorescence was at an all-time high last summer and deep into the fall. The brown algae, I'm assuming, fed off these massive amounts of phytoplankton. The cycle persists.

Here's an article I wrote a couple of years ago about this.

A Plague on Our River

In the meantime, Republican candidates are boasting about cutting the deficit by eliminating the EPA. Brilliant.

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"It's always better than it looks from the crossover."

On a guilty note it is interesting to see all the big reds and black drum that were out there, on a somber note they will never be caught.....as they are dead. Great article BTW slideaway

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I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

It's really easy to point fingers, but unless your yard is xeriscaped or natural scrub, we ARE part of the problem. Any water that runs off our lawn/driveway and into storm drains is part of the problem.

The solution starts with each and every person. Accept your own personal responsibility in this and take action on the things that YOU can impact.


"POLLUTED STORMWATER RUNOFF AND GROUNDWATER ARE THE LARGEST FACTORS DEGRADING WATER QUALITY IN THE INDIAN RIVER LAGOON"

Source: http://www.brevardcounty.us/do...ormwater-fee-faqs.pdf

I think the government tells us it is runoff so they don't have to discuss the old sewer lines and septic tanks.  Who thinks those sewer lines were made to last forever?  Most of them are 50 years old and made of concrete, when laid in dredged up material, that all the homes on Sykes Creek are built on for example, they degrade due to the salt in the dredged material.

Blame the homeowners so nobody talks about the failing infrastructure. Fertilizer might be the low hanging fruit but it is a small fraction of the problem.

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JMA

CNN worldwide just reported on our massive fish kill. In essence claims of the ACOE's billions of gals. released from the Big O being the main culprit, as this el nino brought record rainfall. The Corps is said to have cut the release quantity, however to little to late regarding the imact to the IRL. Sounds like all other factors being spoken about here has left the sytem vulnerable to not being healthy enough to survive what action the Corps chose to do. What are the chances this visibility now will garner a response of federal funds coming our way to restore the IRL? Constructive responses requested please.    

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ola ~

Plenty of people talk about septic. Scientists studying the lagoon have been sounding that alarm alongside the fertilizer alarm for over a decade now.

The majority of people on septic don't want to pay for the upgrade and the majority of people in general don't want to pay either. I remember the people in Orange City screaming bloody murder when the man came and forced them to hook up to city services to protect Blue Springs. I won't be any different in Brevard when the man knocks on 90,000 doors demanding that people pay to be upgraded.

So the elected officials are responding to that.

Regarding fertilizer, the people on septic will say the same thing about their septic tank that you say about lawn fertilizer. They will just point the finger somewhere else.

Fertilizer is a big fraction, on par with waste water or maybe worse. Look at the fraction of watershed that is in turf. Think about the sandy soil's terrible capacity to retain nutrients and do the math. Look at all the lawns that were fed this week right before the deluge that hit Cocoa/Rockledge/N MI/Cape Can/CCB. We had 3.5 inches in Rockledge Thurs night into Friday. A lot of lawns have those little warning signs that the lawn companies put out when they do the weed and feed herbicide/pesticide/fertilizer combo on St. Augustine.

Then there's the storm water. A lot of lawn guys are still blowing leaves into the street. You should have seen the leave litter piled up in the storm drains yesterday. The leaves themselves are a small thing but they are part of the "stormwater" elephant. Those oak leaves in a natural state would stay under the tree and compost down to feed the tree they came off. Now they wash down the storm drain to decompose in the lagoon and feed the lagoon. People figure the leaves are natural so it is okay. Those leaves should be composed in the lawns/landscape but people can't be bothered. Plus, that type of composting make pest control harder for the lawn companies that have there weed and feed schedules for perfect St. Augustine...

 

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65 -

You are right, there is some untreated wastewater, both allowed under permit, and loss from spills and leakage contributing to the problem.

And there are ways to estimate that amount, in both volume and nutrient contribution (do you really want to see more math? )

But they show time and again that fertilier (use, not necessarily misuse) 

is a (the?) major cuplrit and is much, much easier to fix in a reasonable time and $ scale.

FWIW, Martin Co is hooking septic to sewer in the IRL/St. Lucie River area.  

It costs in the neighborhood of $12-15K / home for the areas they're working.

What does it cost to NOT fertilize your yard? (and when can you get started on that?)

 

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

I refuse to fertilize my lawn. Probably why my lawn is one of the uglier ones on my street. I see my neighbors pouring on that fertilizer multiple times a year to keep the lawn that green. Can't really do anything about that, but at least I'm not contributing.

Unfortunately I do live beachside in an unincorporated area and have septic that I can't do anything about, except keeping it maintained. Volusia county has drawn up plans to replace septic, but I don't know if there is a timeline. The estimate $5k/house to connect to it. If I knew it was coming long enough ahead of time I wouldn't hesitate to pay when the time comes.
Their document is here for those interested. http://www.volusia.org/core/fi...wer_Systems.pdf

The state and /or Feds could give large tax deductions to offset cost for people to remove septic tanks and hook up to sewer.

State could enact fertilizer or dances to better control its adverse affects.

County could do better to enforce yard waste getting blown into drains.

Also enforce in many canal front yards in which debris is blown directly into lagoon. Boat through residential canal on any weekday and see all the fresh grass floating by.

State, Feds and local govts can fund or install and maintain baffle boxes at runoff points.

State, Feds or local govts could fund more muck removals well as mangrove installation on a larger scale.

Fed, state or local govt could build wetland areas in the upper ends af the creeks and rivers o filter nutrients just as they have done at viera and stick marsh.

Explore some of the ideas of smaller inlets or wiers to create a flow south

Captains for Clean Water,  a group of charte boat captains trying to help clean the waters in Fla.

 

captainsforcleanwater.org

Off our dock in north Sat Bch we have catfish swimming around but not much else.
Have seen a few pompano dead, but nothing like other spots.
Never have fertilized myself, I water 15 minutes per zone once a week in the winter and twice in the summer. I'll turn it off depending on the Summer rains.
Doing what I can.

I can tell you that the golf courses on merrit island and cocoa beach dump chemicals and fertilizer wholesale into the marshes and into drains...Former spray tech/asst. Superintendent. All that plus the major Chem dumps from Kennedy scare the shit out of me. Got out of golf course work because I couldn't take spraying death all over the environment...they have back stock of banned chemicals which are still used (at least The Savannahs do...)

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Do you know what Wubba-LubbA-Dub-Dub means in BirdPerson language?

Mushyman please id exactly what banned substances you have witnessed on site at Savannah's. Thanks in adavnce.

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ola ~

Right off hand. MSMA, Fipronil, 2-4D, Diazinon, Dursban, Outrider (sulfosulfuron), diquat dibromide, . Been out of the turf game for a couple years and am in Puerto Rico at the moment so I don't have my log books and I don't remember exactly what is banned anymore but they really should do some soil testing. Equally bad or worse than the banned/restricted herbicides, pesticides, and fungicides is the basically wholesale dumping they do of the spray rigs tank back in the marsh, which in some cases have clearly marked wildlife refuge signs posted. They have no chemical holding tanks so finding a shady spot out past the fences is where the excess chemical/fert is dumped. They have an area filled in with gravel where the rigs are rinsed allowing anything leftover into ground soil...I have witnessed the Superintendent directing the spray tech to edit or completely leave out entire spray sessions in which wrongly branded or banned chemicals were used. This is the norm in many different areas, the Wekiva River is seeing massive blooms of algae and the golf clubs (Alaqua CC, my exp) continue to dump excess chem/fert into the actual wetlands located in between the club and the river basin...

Some clubs have better standards than others, for instance, Alaqua CC has holding tanks and basins that pump into holding tanks, but they only use them for certain chemicals and not fertilizer!!

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Do you know what Wubba-LubbA-Dub-Dub means in BirdPerson language?

Edited: 03/28/2016 at 06:00 PM by mushyman