The GOP, to move beyond being bound in a cultural backwater, should reinvent its arguments and focus less on Grand Ideas like personal liberty and national sovereignty and more on utilitarian arguments about the collapse of liberalism and how it hurts the poor and middle class.

The GOP should spend 80% of its time talking about how the poor will be hurt by the ACA by higher prices and less efficiency, how illegal immigration hurts black people, and how the middle class will suffer horribly after obama jacks up the price of coal and energy.

It should reinvent itself in a populist-insurgent mode that focuses on practical, immediate arguments for how liberalism fails average people.

National sovereingty may seem a strong argument for closing the border, but the stronger argument may be the humanistic ones:  1) poor people and in particular minorities will suffer from a lack of jobs; 2) more and more Latino children will die on the way here in a Death Race 2000.

Drop the white-collar talk and pick up the blue-collar mantle.

 

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John V. Linton

People who could never afford insurance will be hurt by the plan that makes it affordable to them in the first place?

I'm not sure that's a good place to being rebuilding.

...

We are borderline energy self-sufficient.

That doesn't look like a solid foundation either.

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I was right.

Some small % of people will be helped by the ACA:  Most will be hurt and badly.  Costs are going up, doctor-network access reduced, and the middle class will get hit hardest.  If you make the finite number of doctors more encumbered with paperwork and bureaucracy, you have even less face time with people of average means.

There was no expansion of capacity in the ACA, only a bunch of new insurance promises.  But coverage does not = access, hence the argument could be landed that all sorts of new scarcity is coming.

We are energy self-sufficient, but Obama closing coal plants and the left's relentless attack on fracking will drive up energy costs for average people -- let alone their endless promise of carbon tax.

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John V. Linton

We have all found out that this is a lie....so when are you going to stop repeating it?

The ACA isn't affordable.

Obama promised a $2500 reduction for a family of 4....LIE!

"In 2008, candidate Obama promised that his administration would cut health care premiums by $2,500 per year per American family. But, since 2009, premiums have risen by $2,370 a year."

http://www.sodahead.com/united...sed+a+$2500+reduction

http://www.breitbart.com/Insta...ance-Premiums-By-2500



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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Edited: 07/21/2014 at 01:37 PM by Fish Killer

It should be pointed out that there was already a looming doctor shortage before the ACA:  Many doctors will not see Medicaid patients and doctors are starting to leave Medicare or only practice concierge medicine.

The Tampa Bay Times recently ran a story on how when hospitals buy up doctors practices, price-per-unit of care actually increases.  Think about that:  more and more centralization is not leading to economies of scale, but to price inflation.

In every country on Earth (including single-payer countries) the wealthiest always get best care, followed by everyone down the ladder in order -- whether we like this truth or not.

This means that if you massively increase the surface area/complexity but do not significantly increase capacity, average people will get screwed as the wealthy and upper-middle class can absorb the higher costs.

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John V. Linton

We need universal healthcare in the US, without decent health care this nation will die.

It is not too late for extreme measures. The health insurance industry caused this problem, they need to go. This country's survival depends on it.

Not really.  The problem is endemic to the fact that in a nation of 316 million+ people, there is far more demand than capacity.

I happen to agree that the U.S. is a wealthy enough nation to gurantee a minimum humane level of care.

Where I disagree is the Left often approaches this question from the standpoint of what can be promised rather than giving a thought to what can be delivered.

We need more doctors, more clinics, and more decentralization of the healthcare market.

Though it lacks the "Che mystique", if you shattered marketplace collusion among the hospital-industrial complex, made insurance more competitive, got rid of kickbacks for the doctors, threw out all these ridiculous federal requirements -- and voucherized people below a certain income threshold at 100%, 95%, etc. -- while neither the Left nor Right would completely like this, it would be immensely better than the hash we have done.

The ACA redistributes, but not in the way the Left envisions.  It is not a redistribution from the upper-middle class to the poor; it is rather a redistribution from the middle class to a new tier of middle-managers, bureaucrats (both public and private) and IT people.

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John V. Linton

Yeah, it is indisputable that the U.S. went to hell between 1776 and 2010. On the flip side, Great Britain, Spain and France have gone from miserable hell holes to the most successful countries on earth since they began providing universal health care. Even smallish countries like Cuba have become powerhouses since the advent of universal health care. No doubt, history is on your side on this issue.

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I :heart; Q

I don't see how repugs can make the comeback. This what regressives do, they want the time to go backwards. Anyone want to bet that will happen. Its like this..kind of like when Duke said that the best surfer was the surfer that was having the most fun. ( course most repugs don't surf so this metaphor is surely lost. )

But it just seems that the wealthiest nation ever on the faced of the earth should be
able to provide some assistance to those who somehow cannot provide for themselves. I would bet that at some point in the future there will be a constitutional amendment declaring that all Americans have a right to healthcare.

I am sure that to a repug this is blasphemy. But hell these are the same whiney little beatchs that did not want black people to be free or vote or drink from their water fountain. The same miserable twerps that did not want women to vote.

You got to hand it to repugs on somethings, losers that they are. Dumbasses are persistent.

The worst thing in the world is a teabagging tampon tort lawyer. He sure as shit would never give someone in need the time of day. Selfish little twat. Course it is somewhat understandable when your life is a wreck due to constant ongoing stupidity and most of what is earned goes to pay for past mistakes.

Repugs, no , just dead dinos turning into tar.

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So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.

Some of you guys talk like the healthcare system before ACA was doing OK. It was not. The pharma-surnace industrial complex sucks major resources out of the system. Big Pharma can invent a disease in the morning and cute it by dinner.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

But that's the problem!

ObamaCare will still have 40 million people uninsured a decade from now!

There were 30 million uninsured BEFORE ObamaCare!

All of your reasoning for the implementation is a JOKE!

It was supposed to save us money!

It WONT!

You can keep your doctor!

You can't!

Everything ObamaCare was founded on and was promised was and is a LIE!

-------------------------
The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

No dumbass, want to bet? See you teabagger are unable to reason without a cut and paste.

One of the main problems with universal healthcare is INSURANCE......In the future there will not be insurance as you know it. That's why you repugs and teabaggers are regressive, you are unable to conceive what the future will look like and base everything on "the way it was" Hey beauregard, the south aint gonna rise again.

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So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.

Moron!

http://www.weeklystandard.com/...30-million_733740.html

-------------------------
The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

I don't quite follow your line of thinking, should we leave the poor uninsured?

Should we keep it where the poor use emergency services for their everyday healthcare?

I received less for more - year in and year out - for my healthcare, but for the last three years the quality hasn't decreased and my costs have only nominally increased.... personally, I don't see that as a bad thing.



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I was right.

jdbman

sorry about quoting myself, but...notice how old fuck knut answers my challenge by posting a link. Proves my point that without Google, teabaggers would be what they really are....ignorant , redneck, dipshits.

-------------------------
So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.

No we should not leave the poor uninsured or dependent purely on the ER, per my other post.  (Btw, post ACA ER visits are up, not down.)

The ACA's architectural problems cannot be dispatched by citing single cases where it has not yet damaged someone's healthcare.  No doubt some people will benefit.

But in its design there was complete denial of the boomers hitting Medicare, of the looming doctor shortage, and of the failure to systemically address cost-per-unit-of-care.

A great deal of money is going into more bureaucracy and not into hiring more doctors or getting more facetime with doctors for average people.

It's just that this hasn't yet become obvious because we are still in the early days of implementation.

We are hearing growing concerns about restricted access networks, etc.  This is just the tip of the iceberg.

The long-term solvency issues of such a poorly-designed system will express themselves in longer wait times, less access, and higher costs.

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John V. Linton

I see that you had no factual comeback to my point. I win again.

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I :heart; Q

tampon

What is that? Proving your hypocracy on a regular basis. I have never said that my retort was "factual". My opinion is my opinion. Its what I think. Course you are totally unable to "prove" me wrong on just about any point. Hell , I could be wrong, my opinion can change, based on new, mo betta info. But you teabaggin dipshits, stick to your total bs. Even when proven totally wrong you just move on.

I accept that. Its what people with their heads up their ass do.

You teabaggers are expert at taking total bs or "opinion" and considering it to be fact. Just part of your delusion. Party on teabagger.

-------------------------
So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.

Gotta love how muddled thinking Repugnicans howl on how the ACA is terrible! People still have no healthcare, costs more blah blah blah, all their vitriol goes to Obama when in fact THEY are the cause. In totally rejecting a single payer system a la Medicare or the VA they went kicking and screaming to a LESS economical system. Combine that with their collective dead soul philosophy of not giving two divine sh!ts about the less fortunate and unwillingness to sacrifice one red cent to anyone they deem lazy and the downfall of the Nation is assured. What's even more astounding is that they offer ZERO alternatives to real issues. All their good at is fabricating issues (i.e. voter fraud) in attempts to retain power for their wealthy corporate "Massa's".

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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness -
John Kenneth Galbraith

The way for the GOP to reinvent itself depends on reincarnation after they (GOP) destroy this planet..