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Topic Title: What Happened to the River?
Topic Summary:
Created On: 09/02/2020 04:47 AM
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 What Happened to the River?   - Big John - 09/02/2020 04:47 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - kreidel - 09/02/2020 05:13 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - stokedpanda - 09/02/2020 08:02 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - jdbman - 09/25/2020 05:40 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Cole - 09/26/2020 09:51 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Big John - 09/27/2020 11:28 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - surfmcc32 - 09/28/2020 05:32 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Cole - 09/28/2020 06:18 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Big John - 09/28/2020 03:10 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Cole - 09/30/2020 08:47 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 10/05/2020 02:36 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - stokedpanda - 10/02/2020 09:11 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Big John - 10/02/2020 03:13 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - inletbum - 10/04/2020 09:34 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - tom - 10/04/2020 10:58 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - SurferMic - 10/05/2020 08:44 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 10/05/2020 05:46 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 10/05/2020 05:51 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - tom - 10/06/2020 06:29 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 10/06/2020 05:39 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 10/06/2020 05:43 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 10/15/2020 06:30 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 10/15/2020 06:32 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 11/28/2020 09:37 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - tertle - 11/28/2020 03:55 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 11/29/2020 10:02 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - stokedpanda - 10/05/2020 09:21 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - jdbman - 10/05/2020 01:19 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - stokedpanda - 11/30/2020 10:54 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - tertle - 11/30/2020 06:38 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - stokedpanda - 12/01/2020 06:25 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Cole - 12/01/2020 06:32 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 12/02/2020 04:55 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 12/02/2020 05:04 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - stokedpanda - 12/02/2020 06:35 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 12/03/2020 08:21 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Cole - 12/10/2020 01:40 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - inletbum - 12/11/2020 03:53 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 12/11/2020 05:36 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Cole - 12/11/2020 06:30 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - stokedpanda - 12/11/2020 01:29 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 12/16/2020 11:49 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 12/16/2020 11:53 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 01/20/2021 06:17 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - jdbman - 01/21/2021 06:38 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Cole - 01/29/2021 05:30 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Cole - 02/01/2021 09:22 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 03/17/2021 05:15 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - waterlizard25 - 03/29/2021 08:17 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - stokedpanda - 03/18/2021 05:58 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - TATTOO74 - 03/18/2021 06:16 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 03/18/2021 10:55 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - stokedpanda - 03/18/2021 11:56 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - TATTOO74 - 03/18/2021 01:02 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 03/18/2021 02:56 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - RocketSurf - 04/01/2021 09:19 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - jdbman - 04/09/2021 01:59 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Cole - 04/10/2021 08:24 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - spindrift - 04/12/2021 02:36 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - jdbman - 04/12/2021 04:00 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - stokedpanda - 04/13/2021 07:16 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - StirfryMcflurry - 04/15/2021 05:06 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Cole - 04/15/2021 09:45 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 04/16/2021 08:27 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - scombrid - 04/20/2021 07:00 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - waterlizard25 - 06/11/2021 01:43 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Cole - 06/13/2021 08:37 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - equipeola - 06/15/2021 08:03 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - stokedpanda - 04/20/2021 12:51 PM  
 What Happened to the River?   - Cole - 04/24/2021 10:23 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - crankit - 05/09/2021 07:25 AM  
 What Happened to the River?   - stokedpanda - 06/21/2021 05:50 AM  
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 10/04/2020 09:34 AM
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inletbum

Posts: 226
Joined Forum: 10/24/2006

Placing a ban on water soluable fertilizers would make difference, but that is exactly what all the companies that spray use and all the cheap bagged fertilizers are composed of. Too much money to be made maintaining the status quo.
 10/04/2020 10:58 AM
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tom

Posts: 8013
Joined Forum: 07/25/2003

Mass balance people. Tons of nitrogen and phosphorus from food (think wastewater) and fertilizer trucked into IRL watershed. No equal and opposite mechanism to remove it. Hot on the left, cold on the right, shit flows downhill. The Lagoon is the bottom of the hill. Any wonder that all that extra nitrogen and phosphorus are eutrophying the system? Nothing complicated about it. Same old story all around the country and world for that matter. Same solutions too.

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 10/05/2020 08:44 AM
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SurferMic

Posts: 1251
Joined Forum: 06/30/2012

we are past the tipping point to come back, we care about the water quality...no-one else does, All around me is perfect St. Auggy so bright green and clean. Landscapers cut and blow grass into the canals, yard "techs" spraying all the time, sprinklers running day after day, The average Brevard resident justs want nice grass. 99% just drive over the bridges most don't even notice the color changes or care.

Edited: 10/05/2020 at 10:41 AM by SurferMic
 10/05/2020 05:46 PM
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scombrid

Posts: 18018
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Originally posted by: tom Mass balance people. Tons of nitrogen and phosphorus from food (think wastewater) and fertilizer trucked into IRL watershed. No equal and opposite mechanism to remove it. Hot on the left, cold on the right, shit flows downhill. The Lagoon is the bottom of the hill. Any wonder that all that extra nitrogen and phosphorus are eutrophying the system? Nothing complicated about it. Same old story all around the country and world for that matter. Same solutions too.
Yeah, we've been lucky that the lagoon was so resilient and took so long to flip to the altered stable state of plankton dominance that wrecked Long Island Sound, the Chesapeake Bay, and damn near every big lake in Florida already. All that kept the lagoon from flipping sooner was that it was a fairly small catchment so it received less total runoff relative to its size than the waters that flipped sooner.

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 10/05/2020 05:51 PM
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scombrid

Posts: 18018
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Of course the lagoon is now suffering from excessive salinity during dry spells because the small watershed has been paved over enough that the fresh water supply has gotten too flashy. The water comes all at once when it rains and the water that comes is full of crap. Then during the dry spell there is no groundwater feed to the lagoon so it gets saltier than the ocean. That is fouling up the balance of what plankton and plants want to grow too. My neighbor is a great example of that problem. Her yard turned a little brown when it got cold at the end of January. So she stupidly increased water more and more. The more she watered her semi-dormant St. Auggie the browner it got. She killed it. Our going salty so she's got fungus and salty dirt. Only bright side to that is that enough wells are going salty around here that people that aren't on reclaimed water have to switch to something other than St. Augustine grass.

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 10/06/2020 06:29 AM
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tom

Posts: 8013
Joined Forum: 07/25/2003

I'm going to give a shout to the environmental community for also delaying the flip from seagrass to phytoplankton for so long. Indian River Lagoon Act prohibited STPs from putting treated wastewater into the Lagoon. Marine Resources Council has long advocated and implemented public involvement. Stormwater Rules largely enforced to prevent new development runoff. Plenty more too, hell, citizens of Brevard voted a 1/2 cent cleanup tax! Unfortunately, too little and mostly too late. Cleanup still possible but will require genuine will of the people (fertilizer) and big $$ (wastewater) to actually accomplish. Sigh.

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 10/06/2020 05:39 PM
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scombrid

Posts: 18018
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

That is very true. The lagoon was sliding down hill pretty bad in the 70s and 80s. None of the original big developments had any meaningful stormwater storage capacity. Look at aerials of all the pre-1990 developments and notice that it is just ditches and no storage ponds; especially the shitty developments like Port Malabar and Port St. Lucie. Huge amounts of St. Johns water was diverted to the lagoon and that diverted water was ag waste and suburban runoff from places like most of Palm Bay via Melbourne-Tillman. But the new developments had tighter and tighter rules on how much rain was supposed to hold back; had to install X-acre feet of storage for every so-many square feet of impervious surface. There we a lot of targeted septic to sewer conversions that had a good effect. My neighborhood got sewer in 1980 since we are on a sand dune that leeches easily to the lagoon. The water in the lagoon wasn't looking too bad in the mid-2000s.

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 10/06/2020 05:43 PM
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scombrid

Posts: 18018
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

But population pressure is winning out and the old measures aren't keeping up. Need to spend a lot of money on sewer infrastructure and stormwater management and get people to quit pumping the shallow aquifer onto their lawns and fertilizing like fiends.

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 10/15/2020 06:30 AM
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scombrid

Posts: 18018
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

My neighbor is a good example of what is happening to the river. She wants a nice St. Augustine Lawn so much. Last winter when we had a tiny cool spell her lawn browned slightly as St. Augustine grass can do when night temps drop into the 30s. She saw brown and thought it needed more water. So she ran her water multiple days per week. Wet semi-dormant grass grows nastiness and she killed her lawn with fungus. She consulted a lawn guy. He told her she over-watered. She put down sod. She killed that with excessive irrigation with well water that is becoming increasingly salty due to over-pumping. Yesterday she had her husband out putting down granular WeedNFeed on what is about 50% bare dirt. Her irrigation runs 4 days per week. If Brevard County ceased all ornamental broadcast fertilizer we would see immediate water quality improvement in the lagoon before we ever got to the super expensive fixing of sewer infrastructure.

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 10/15/2020 06:32 AM
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scombrid

Posts: 18018
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

And she is one lonely lawn. The "Black's", "Slug-a-bug", "middleton's", "Trugreen" signs are all over the neighborhood from people getting their monthly broadcast of the Fertilizer/Herbicide/Insecticide/Fungicide cocktail.

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 11/28/2020 09:37 AM
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scombrid

Posts: 18018
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Bloom has collapsed from Bee Line south to at least Magruder Ave. Water is very brown but relatively clear in Rockledge with transparency being closer to 1 meter rather than the 0.01 meter it has been since August. The bloom collapse took the dissolved oxygen with it. Yesterday there were a few dead sand perch and mojarras with hog chokers and tongue fish laying on the surface looking like floating leaf litter and hanging on by a thread. More things are belly up today. Mostly smaller and demersal things that can't get out of the way but starting to see dead sheeps, spades, reds, and at least one decent sized snook down by Indian River Club this morning. If you look on the bottom in shallow water there are dead blennies, gobies, and such laying on the bottom. Of course lot of dead catfish. Paddle from Rockledge up to the Bee Line and then down to Magruder and back to home street this morning. There were scattered dead fish throughout but definitely most death was between SR520 and Magruder. Not sure what things are like down toward Pineda; haven't been there in awhile.

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Edited: 11/28/2020 at 09:41 AM by scombrid
 11/28/2020 03:55 PM
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tertle

Posts: 62
Joined Forum: 07/23/2003

water is green down by mathers/eau gallie causeway.
 11/29/2020 10:02 AM
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scombrid

Posts: 18018
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Real time sensor shows super saturated oxygen down there so the bloom is still going there. Stinky floaters today up in Cocoa. Runners in the marathon should be thankful the wind was west. Just looked. DEP station at 192 shows oxygen at about 140% saturation during the diurnal peak. The station at SR528 showed oxygen at 1.2 mg/l (<30% saturated) on Friday morning and then that station stopped reporting.

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Edited: 11/29/2020 at 11:05 AM by scombrid
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