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Topic Title: What freedoms is Deasntis talking about...
Topic Summary: When he says he will be standing in Biden’s way?
Created On: 08/04/2021 08:37 PM
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 08/04/2021 08:37 PM
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johnnyboy

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http://www.google.com/amp/s/ww...rida-vaccines.amp.html

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 08/04/2021 09:10 PM
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johnnyboy

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The New York Times
OPINION
PAUL KRUGMAN
'Freedom,' Florida and the Delta Variant Disaster
Aug. 2, 2021

By Paul Krugman
Opinion Columnist
Ron DeSantis, governor of Florida, isn't stupid. He is, however, ambitious and supremely cynical. So when he says things that sound stupid it's worth asking why. And his recent statements on Covid-19 help us understand why so many Americans are still dying or getting severely ill from the disease.

The background here is Florida's unfolding public health catastrophe.

We now have highly effective vaccines freely available to every American who is at least 12 years old. There has been a lot of hype about "breakthrough" infections associated with the Delta variant, but they remain rare, and serious illness among the vaccinated is rarer still. There is no good reason we should still be suffering severely from this pandemic.

But Florida is in the grip of a Covid surge worse than it experienced before the vaccines. More than 10,000 Floridians are hospitalized, around 10 times the number in New York, which has about as many residents; an average of 58 Florida residents are dying each day, compared with six in New York. And the Florida hospital system is under extreme stress.

There's no mystery about why this has happened. At every stage of the pandemic DeSantis has effectively acted as an ally of the coronavirus, for example by issuing orders blocking businesses from requiring that their patrons show proof of vaccination and schools from requiring masks. More generally, he has helped create a state of mind in which vaccine skepticism flourishes and refusal to take precautions is normalized.

One technical note: Florida's vaccination rate is well below the rates in the Northeast, but closely matches the national average. But seniors are much more likely to be vaccinated than younger Americans, in Florida as elsewhere; and Florida, of course, has an unusually high number of seniors. Among younger groups the state lags behind the nation as a whole, and even further behind blue states.

So, given these grim developments, one might have expected or at least hoped that DeSantis would reconsider his position. In fact, he has been making excuses - it's all about the air-conditioning! He has been claiming that any new restrictions would have unacceptable costs for the economy - although Florida's recent performance looks terrible if you place any value on human life.

Above all, he has been playing the liberal-conspiracy-theory card, with fund-raising letters declaring that the "radical left" is "coming for your freedom."

So let's talk about what the right means when it talks about "freedom." Since the pandemic began, many conservatives have insisted that actions to limit the death toll - social distancing, wearing a mask and now getting vaccinated - should be matters of personal choice. Does that position make any sense?

Well, driving drunk is also a personal choice. But almost everyone understands that it's a personal choice that endangers others; 97 percent of the public considers driving while impaired by alcohol a serious problem. Why don't we have the same kind of unanimity on refusing to get vaccinated, a choice that helps perpetuate the pandemic and puts others at risk?

True, many people doubt the science; the link between vaccine refusal and Covid deaths is every bit as real as the link between D.U.I. and traffic deaths, but is less obvious to the naked eye. But why are people on the right so receptive to misinformation on this subject, and so angry about efforts to set the record straight?

My answer is that when people on the right talk about "freedom" what they actually mean is closer to "defense of privilege" - specifically the right of certain people (generally white male Christians) to do whatever they want.

Not incidentally, if you go back to the roots of modern conservatism, you find people like Barry Goldwater defending the right of businesses to discriminate against Black Americans. In the name of freedom, of course. A lot, though not all, of the recent panic about "cancel culture" is about protecting the right of powerful men to mistreat women. And so on.

Once you understand that the rhetoric of freedom is actually about privilege, things that look on the surface like gross inconsistency and hypocrisy start to make sense.

Why, for example, are conservatives so insistent on the right of businesses to make their own decisions, free from regulation - but quick to stop them from denying service to customers who refuse to wear masks or show proof of vaccination? Why is the autonomy of local school districts a fundamental principle - unless they want to require masks or teach America's racial history? It's all about whose privilege is being protected.

The reality of what the right means by freedom also, I think, explains the special rage induced by rules that impose some slight inconvenience in the name of the public interest - like the detergent wars of a few years back. After all, only poor people and minority groups are supposed to be asked to make sacrifices.

Anyway, as you watch DeSantis invoke "freedom" to escape responsibility for his Covid catastrophe, remember, when he says it, that word does not mean what you think it means.


Paul Krugman has been an Opinion columnist since 2000 and is also a Distinguished Professor at the City University of New York Graduate Center. He won the 2008 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for his work on international trade and economic geography. @PaulKrugman




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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 08/04/2021 10:22 PM
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nukeh2o

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Why, for example, are conservatives so insistent on the right of businesses to make their own decisions, free from regulation - but quick to stop them from denying service to customers who refuse to wear masks or show proof of vaccination? Why is the autonomy of local school districts a fundamental principle - unless they want to require masks
Whut hypocrussy.......

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It's a democratic hoax
 08/05/2021 04:24 AM
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somebodyelse

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Even a numbnuts like you should recognize the apples and oranges comparison.
A business can require masks, people are free to take their business elsewhere...
Children are required to attend school, only the rich can afford a tutor or private school,
So you would be FORCING children of poor people to mask up.
Children who are naturally more protected than even vaccinated people.

And proof of vaccination is pure theater,
it's pure virtue signaling, 'vaccinated people DO NOT have any difference in viral load (for Delta) than unvaccinated people.' -Fauci-




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 08/05/2021 05:09 AM
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RustyTruck

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Proof of vaccination means the person is far less likely to contract the disease. All school personnel and students 12 and over should be vaccinated as a condition of attending public school. Period.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 08/05/2021 05:16 AM
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Greensleeves

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we'd be in the clear except for the QOP. Qrump's and now the party's continued mishandling of information is why people are dying.
 08/05/2021 05:19 AM
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tom

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Give them liberty! Or give them death!!! hahahaha.... um. oh.

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 08/05/2021 05:31 AM
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RiddleMe

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Well, it was a good read until he pulled the gender and race card.
 08/05/2021 05:33 AM
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surfsail

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Also the use of masks should be mandatory for all in all public spaces - until this is a done deal.. OR we can implement AND require everyone to show proof of vacc with a govt issued 'passport'.. How the fuck does any anyone know that the person next to you has been vaccinated and not a "Typhoid Mary".. "Peter pays for Paul"... Would you like to be getting a serious deadly virus like the Aids virus through breathing contaminated exhaled air from a contageous asshole?. Don't think partial face masks work? Then lets all get into full haz mat suits.. Yup, I flew last July 20' and there were passengers in Detroit airport wearing 'full' suits (not true 'haz mat') - covering full body - heads and bodies covered... Really? I took pics.. .. Like them apples instead? Choices choices... Lets see how the cruise ship industry holds out with cove spreaders allowed on the pertrie dish.. Better yet lets see how this all plays out in '22 elections after the country is decimated .. Need to raise taxes to cover the 'collateral damage' to the population - yes, both medicare and medicaid will be affected .. young and old - Because you had cove and are walking around does not man you got away unscathed.. and then we will endure yet another round of whining little bitches when taxes go up..

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There are NO white people at all in the Bible... take all the time you need with that...
Please stop feeding the trolls - they will go away if you do...
 08/05/2021 05:50 AM
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Cole

Posts: 68180
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They keep saying freedom while they keep taking the power from counties, towns and municipalities.

More like free to centralize big government power.

You republican assholes always bitched about big government and you didn't even know what it was, so you voted in those who thrive on it.

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I was right.
 08/05/2021 05:51 AM
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Pagerow

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Originally posted by: somebodyelse

Children who are naturally more protected than even vaccinated people.


Yeah, about that notion...

Florida Reports Rise in COVID-19 Hospitalizations Among Children

Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reveals that Florida Department of Health reported 32 pediatric COVID-19 hospitalizations per day and between July 23 and 29. There were also 10,785 new COVID-19 infections among children under age 12 in the same time frame - an average of 1,540 new cases per day, the Tampa Bay Times reports.

And before you say "bUt tHeY ReCovErEd!" consider this:

> What long term symptoms do they have and for how long?
> How much do the families owe the hospitals?
> How much time off work do the parents take to care for their sick kids?
> What stresses do the families endure during this time?
> Who else did these children spread the virus to inadvertently?

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GOP:

Gaslight
Obstruct
Project
 08/05/2021 05:56 AM
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wtf

Posts: 6945
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As the virus has mutated, it has become more a threat to kids. Hospitalizations of children are up. And don't look now but here come another variant. One key point of all this is to stop the virus in its tracks so that it cannot mutate further into something more dangerous.

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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay
 08/05/2021 06:01 AM
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johnnyboy

Posts: 25071
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Protecting privilege is hard. The struggle is reall.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 08/05/2021 06:06 AM
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tom

Posts: 8013
Joined Forum: 07/25/2003

^Yep. I believe Desantis will go down as being on the wrong side of history for this one. He's playing a short game when he should be looking long. Unfortunate.

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 08/05/2021 06:13 AM
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Cole

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So you would be FORCING children of poor people to mask up.

Where do you come up with this shit? 90 percent of children attend public schools.

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I was right.
 08/05/2021 06:20 AM
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tpapablo

Posts: 43831
Joined Forum: 07/25/2003

What freedoms? Read the Bill of Rights. We are very lucky to have DeSantis during this time.

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I :heart; Q
 08/05/2021 06:27 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33300
Joined Forum: 08/02/2004

Locally that fat ass blowhard Randy Fine told one local parent that they could qualify for a voucher to attend a private school that requires masks and he would help; but he's steadfast against masks in public schools even though he nearly died of covid himself. It begs the question how much of this is further efforts by the pugs to destroy the public school system and funnel public funding into private capitalist education businesses.

-------------------------
Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 08/05/2021 06:28 AM
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tpapablo

Posts: 43831
Joined Forum: 07/25/2003

Originally posted by: surfsail Also the use of masks should be mandatory for all in all public spaces - until this is a done deal.. OR we can implement AND require everyone to show proof of vacc with a govt issued 'passport'.. How the fuck does any anyone know that the person next to you has been vaccinated and not a "Typhoid Mary".. "Peter pays for Paul"... Would you like to be getting a serious deadly virus like the Aids virus through breathing contaminated exhaled air from a contageous asshole?. Don't think partial face masks work? Then lets all get into full haz mat suits.. Yup, I flew last July 20' and there were passengers in Detroit airport wearing 'full' suits (not true 'haz mat') - covering full body - heads and bodies covered... Really? I took pics.. .. Like them apples instead? Choices choices... Lets see how the cruise ship industry holds out with cove spreaders allowed on the pertrie dish.. Better yet lets see how this all plays out in '22 elections after the country is decimated .. Need to raise taxes to cover the 'collateral damage' to the population - yes, both medicare and medicaid will be affected .. young and old - Because you had cove and are walking around does not man you got away unscathed.. and then we will endure yet another round of whining little bitches when taxes go up..
Mask are useless. Neither they nor vaccinations are going to stop this disease. As I have been saying since near the start of this, this disease is here to stay and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. The hard part for you progs will be to get your atrophied minds around that. DeSantis knows this.

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I :heart; Q
 08/05/2021 06:32 AM
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wtf

Posts: 6945
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Except masks are not useless, they work backed up by numerous studies. But stay stupid/ignorant dotards...

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QOP = Terrorists
FK = Gay
 08/05/2021 06:47 AM
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tom

Posts: 8013
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Oh barrister. Misrepeating yourself is disingenuous. You clearly stated on 21 May 2020 that "corona is over". Not that "this disease is here to stay". Seems to be quite opposite in fact. Presumably you've realigned your thinking on this?

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