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Topic Title: Will we ever acheive 'herd immunity'? How much longer?
Topic Summary: With many refusing to take the vaccine, will we ever get back to 'life as usual'?
Created On: 04/19/2021 06:25 AM
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 05/05/2021 09:56 AM
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Sniper

Posts: 7204
Joined Forum: 09/24/2003

Originally posted by: Cole

No masks in public, because I am healthy.



Anti mask crusade.



Anti mask crusade.



I have said it a million times and I don't intend on going into it again because it is pointless but I never thought dirty cloth masks did anything. I thought that the vulnerable needed N95 masks and should wear them.

Please don't try to talk about the stupid shit with the droplets. When we are talking about droplets as it relates to viruses, what people expel when they are vaping are droplets, except in the context of viruses, the droplets are much much smaller than the visible droplets expelled through vaping.

I think that asymptomatic spread is basically bullshit.

People who have been vaccinated are only wearing masks for the fun of it.
 05/05/2021 09:58 AM
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Fish Killer

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Originally posted by: Cole
A gannet has never been referred to as a tuna bird


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!@!!!!!!!

FUCKING MORON!



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FRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUD
FRAUDFRAUDFRAUDBIDENFRAUDFRAUDFRAUD
FRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUD
FRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUDFRAUD

Edited: 05/05/2021 at 10:05 AM by Fish Killer
 05/05/2021 04:51 PM
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CurtisEflush

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Sad note #1 is that it's time to put Cole on ignore because it's the only way to keep EffGay off my screen. You thread hijackers should take it to the Fishing forum.

Originally posted by: Sniper
I think that asymptomatic spread is basically bullshit.

People who have been vaccinated are only wearing masks for the fun of it.


I think it was pretty well documented early on that asymptomatic spread among unvaccinated people played a huge role in the pandemic. Is that still in question in your mind?

Vaccinated folks who get reinfected are discussed in this article:

Vaccines protect unvaccinated household members, too

Compared to an unvaccinated COVID-19 patient, a vaccinated person who nevertheless becomes infected with the coronavirus has a much lower risk of transmitting the virus to household members, a large UK study found.

Researchers at Public Health England studied more than 365,000 households with a first COVID-19 infection, including more than 24,000 households in which the so called "index case" of COVID-19 was someone who had received at least one dose of either the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine or the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine.

When the first dose had been given at least 21 days previously - as was the case in 4,107 of the households studied - the risk of virus transmission from vaccinated individuals to their household members was 40% to 50% lower than the risk of transmission from COVID-19 patients who had not been vaccinated, the researchers found.

The effects were similar for both the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines and started to become evident around 14 days after the first dose, according to a report posted ahead of peer review on Knowledge Hub.

Along with the vaccines' success at preventing infections and reducing the severity of infections that do occur, the new findings show they are "associated with reduced likelihood of household transmission ... highlighting important wider benefits to close contacts," the authors conclude. (https://bit.ly/3nMeOmx; https://reut.rs/3vANf2a)


If a vaccinated person is infected but asymptomatic, he is probably carrying a lower total viral load because his antibodies are knocking down some of the virus' attempts to replicate. He is not being a nice host, and thus has fewer viral particles he can spew out to others.

But, while 50% is a nice and significant number, if it means you only risk spreading it to 2 household members instead of 4, that's still a pretty good case for wearing masks indoors in close quarters if other unvaccinated or at-risk people are present.

FWIW, my entire immediate family has already had COVID (very mild cases) and gotten vaccinated afterward, but we still have no objection to wearing masks indoors at businesses and restaurants.

My only exception so far has been at the gym (where almost everyone is unmasked... ) .

I hit the treadmill w/o a mask for the first time earlier this week when nobody else was there, and I felt like friggin' Usain Bolt.
 05/06/2021 07:02 AM
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Sniper

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Originally posted by: CurtisEflush

Sad note #1 is that it's time to put Cole on ignore because it's the only way to keep EffGay off my screen. You thread hijackers should take it to the Fishing forum.

Originally posted by: Sniper

I think that asymptomatic spread is basically bullshit.

People who have been vaccinated are only wearing masks for the fun of it.


I think it was pretty well documented early on that asymptomatic spread among unvaccinated people played a huge role in the pandemic. Is that still in question in your mind?

Vaccinated folks who get reinfected are discussed in this article:

Vaccines protect unvaccinated household members, too

Compared to an unvaccinated COVID-19 patient, a vaccinated person who nevertheless becomes infected with the coronavirus has a much lower risk of transmitting the virus to household members, a large UK study found.

Researchers at Public Health England studied more than 365,000 households with a first COVID-19 infection, including more than 24,000 households in which the so called "index case" of COVID-19 was someone who had received at least one dose of either the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine or the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine.

When the first dose had been given at least 21 days previously - as was the case in 4,107 of the households studied - the risk of virus transmission from vaccinated individuals to their household members was 40% to 50% lower than the risk of transmission from COVID-19 patients who had not been vaccinated, the researchers found.

The effects were similar for both the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines and started to become evident around 14 days after the first dose, according to a report posted ahead of peer review on Knowledge Hub.

Along with the vaccines' success at preventing infections and reducing the severity of infections that do occur, the new findings show they are "associated with reduced likelihood of household transmission ... highlighting important wider benefits to close contacts," the authors conclude. (https://bit.ly/3nMeOmx; https://reut.rs/3vANf2a)


If a vaccinated person is infected but asymptomatic, he is probably carrying a lower total viral load because his antibodies are knocking down some of the virus' attempts to replicate. He is not being a nice host, and thus has fewer viral particles he can spew out to others.

But, while 50% is a nice and significant number, if it means you only risk spreading it to 2 household members instead of 4, that's still a pretty good case for wearing masks indoors in close quarters if other unvaccinated or at-risk people are present.

FWIW, my entire immediate family has already had COVID (very mild cases) and gotten vaccinated afterward, but we still have no objection to wearing masks indoors at businesses and restaurants.

My only exception so far has been at the gym (where almost everyone is unmasked... [IMG][/IMG] ) .

I hit the treadmill w/o a mask for the first time earlier this week when nobody else was there, and I felt like friggin' Usain Bolt.


Based on the CDC's numbers, asymptomatic cases among vaccinated individuals is basically non-existant. These asymptomatic cases account for 0.003% of the cases they have recorded.

Based on what I have read and statements from the WHO and CDC it is my opinion that presymptomatic infections contributed minimally but asymptomatic cases did not. Asymptomatic cases were used to justify making everyone wear masks, instead of just the ones who are sick or feeling ill. The whole "you are doing it to help everyone else" thing.

Edited: 05/06/2021 at 07:14 AM by Sniper
 05/06/2021 07:21 AM
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Cole

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What is the point of forcing people to wear masks if they didn't think they would help? Are we really to believe there is some mighty cabal that just likes to orchestrate the public for no reason? lol

"Ha, ha, watch this, I'm going to make all of them wear masks!"

That's fucking ridiculous.

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So long and thanks for all the fish.
 05/06/2021 07:32 AM
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wtf

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Originally posted by: Cole

What is the point of forcing people to wear masks if they didn't think they would help? Are we really to believe there is some mighty cabal that just likes to orchestrate the public for no reason? lol



"Ha, ha, watch this, I'm going to make all of them wear masks!"



That's fucking ridiculous.

That's what qotards believe, they have simple minds and thus believe ridiculous things.


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QOP = Terrorists
 05/06/2021 07:46 AM
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Sniper

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Originally posted by: Cole

What is the point of forcing people to wear masks if they didn't think they would help? Are we really to believe there is some mighty cabal that just likes to orchestrate the public for no reason? lol

"Ha, ha, watch this, I'm going to make all of them wear masks!"

That's fucking ridiculous.


I think it is either out of ignorance or just covering their asses. Basically the same reason why Florida has practically evacuated the entire state for the past 3-4 hurricanes that have gotten anywhere close to us. It is easier just tell everyone to get out than it is to accurately predict where the most damage will be done. It was easier for them to just tell everyone to wear a mask then it was to explain to everyone who should wear a a mask and have them do it.

I honestly think they just didn't know. Same reason they told everyone not to wear masks then changed their minds. Same reason they said kids couldn't be in schools and then said they should be. At this point, they have bet the farm on masking so they can't turn back. Biden's entire strategy around the vaccine rollout has basically just been a continuation of what Trump was doing with the exception of his emphasis on masks. It is my opinion that he wants to use that as a way to take credit for something that was already happening when he showed up.

Edited: 05/06/2021 at 07:47 AM by Sniper
 05/06/2021 08:01 AM
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RustyTruck

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Wearing a mask indoors for those of us fully vaccinated is just good manners.

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 05/06/2021 08:08 AM
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RiddleMe

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Originally posted by: CurtisEflush
If a vaccinated person is infected but asymptomatic, he is probably carrying a lower total viral load because his antibodies are knocking down some of the virus' attempts to replicate.


Interesting, but I am not so sure that is valid.

It is generally a person's own immune system that causes severe symptoms because of the cytokine storm a strong immune response generates. So not having immune memory of the virus or similar enough viruses, like from other coronaviruses, combined with an overactive immune system was behind a lot of the severe illness. That's why steroids were given to people with severe illness, to tamp down their immune response.

Given the history of spread with the virus, it would seem that high viral loads in asymptomatic people could be achieved while generating little immune response in immune systems that couldn't recognize the virus? Its not like the virus itself is what killed most people.

Regardless, we will still be learning more about this virus for quite some time.



 05/06/2021 08:16 AM
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theglide

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Is it OK for me to smoke a cigar in a public place indoors or out?

Why not?
 05/06/2021 08:21 AM
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tpapablo

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Originally posted by: RustyTruck Wearing a mask indoors for those of us fully vaccinated is just good manners.
Or, you just might be a sheep. But if manners are your reason, when do you stop wearing one. By all appearances this virus will be around forever. Will you wear a mask for good manners sake forever? Or is your standard to keep wearing a mask if there is one person in the world who is worried about it? I would surmise that you would not keep wearing a mask forever. You would stop when the risk is nil, in your view. That is exactly where we are now, in my opinion. Hence, no mask. Not my problem that half the country are hysterics.

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 05/06/2021 08:23 AM
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RiddleMe

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Originally posted by: Sniper
I honestly think they just didn't know. Same reason they told everyone not to wear masks then changed their minds. Same reason they said kids couldn't be in schools and then said they should be. At this point, they have bet the farm on masking so they can't turn back. Biden's entire strategy around the vaccine rollout has basically just been a continuation of what Trump was doing with the exception of his emphasis on masks. It is my opinion that he wants to use that as a way to take credit for something that was already happening when he showed up.


You knowledge on the subject is pretty limited and it is quite clearly expressed in your response.

1. They didn't tell people to not wear masks, then change their minds. That is revisionist or simply ignorant. They specifically told people to reserve N95 and surgical masks for people on the front lines because there was a massive shortage. The science behind why masks are needed and work was well established and further verified with this pandemic by further studies as well as data analysis.

2. What Biden did with vaccine rollout was not a 'continuation of Trump'. This is , yet again, either revisionist or ignorant. Trump did not have a plan to actually get shots in the arms of actual people. He also purposefully obstructed the incoming administration by denying them information and resources. Biden, even before taking office, was working with state governments and private entities to actually get shots in people's arms. The Trump plan ended at dumping vaccines off with the states and had no further guidance, direction, cohesion, or leadership beyond that point. Furthermore, he literally undermined vaccine adoption by conservatives with his own words and behavior, political reasons. Meanwhile, he quietly went and got vaccinated himself.4

3. Regarding the school situation. It was important to keep kids out of school initially as we learned more about the virus. The logic behind it is easy to understand even for those poorly versed in how viruses spread. Allowing onsite schooling, masked up, would have been the 'right' call however, nobody had a crystal ball and nobody knew exactly how the virus worked at the time.

Really though, even taking into account your revisionism and/or ignorance it absolutely should be expected that there will be back and forth, changes in best practice, adaptation of different precautions, and so forth as we learned more about a *new* virus. Like duh, seriously-fucking-duh.
 05/06/2021 08:24 AM
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RiddleMe

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Originally posted by: tpapablo
Or, you just might be a sheep.


Stop bleating. You are one of the biggest sheep out there.

 05/06/2021 08:35 AM
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Sniper

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Originally posted by: RiddleMe

Originally posted by: Sniper

I honestly think they just didn't know. Same reason they told everyone not to wear masks then changed their minds. Same reason they said kids couldn't be in schools and then said they should be. At this point, they have bet the farm on masking so they can't turn back. Biden's entire strategy around the vaccine rollout has basically just been a continuation of what Trump was doing with the exception of his emphasis on masks. It is my opinion that he wants to use that as a way to take credit for something that was already happening when he showed up.




You knowledge on the subject is pretty limited and it is quite clearly expressed in your response.



1. They didn't tell people to not wear masks, then change their minds. That is revisionist or simply ignorant. They specifically told people to reserve N95 and surgical masks for people on the front lines because there was a massive shortage. The science behind why masks are needed and work was well established and further verified with this pandemic by further studies as well as data analysis.


It is going to require multiple posts to unpack this one...

 05/06/2021 08:36 AM
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Sniper

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Originally posted by: RiddleMe

Originally posted by: Sniper

I honestly think they just didn't know. Same reason they told everyone not to wear masks then changed their minds. Same reason they said kids couldn't be in schools and then said they should be. At this point, they have bet the farm on masking so they can't turn back. Biden's entire strategy around the vaccine rollout has basically just been a continuation of what Trump was doing with the exception of his emphasis on masks. It is my opinion that he wants to use that as a way to take credit for something that was already happening when he showed up.




You knowledge on the subject is pretty limited and it is quite clearly expressed in your response.

2. What Biden did with vaccine rollout was not a 'continuation of Trump'. This is , yet again, either revisionist or ignorant. Trump did not have a plan to actually get shots in the arms of actual people. He also purposefully obstructed the incoming administration by denying them information and resources. Biden, even before taking office, was working with state governments and private entities to actually get shots in people's arms. The Trump plan ended at dumping vaccines off with the states and had no further guidance, direction, cohesion, or leadership beyond that point. Furthermore, he literally undermined vaccine adoption by conservatives with his own words and behavior, political reasons. Meanwhile, he quietly went and got vaccinated himself.


Futhermore, this is just wrong.
 05/06/2021 08:46 AM
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tpapablo

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Originally posted by: RiddleMe
Originally posted by: tpapablo Or, you just might be a sheep.
Stop bleating. You are one of the biggest sheep out there.
Not a mask-wearing one, however.

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 05/06/2021 09:02 AM
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Sniper

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Originally posted by: RiddleMe

Originally posted by: Sniper

I honestly think they just didn't know. Same reason they told everyone not to wear masks then changed their minds. Same reason they said kids couldn't be in schools and then said they should be. At this point, they have bet the farm on masking so they can't turn back. Biden's entire strategy around the vaccine rollout has basically just been a continuation of what Trump was doing with the exception of his emphasis on masks. It is my opinion that he wants to use that as a way to take credit for something that was already happening when he showed up.


3. Regarding the school situation. It was important to keep kids out of school initially as we learned more about the virus. The logic behind it is easy to understand even for those poorly versed in how viruses spread. Allowing onsite schooling, masked up, would have been the 'right' call however, nobody had a crystal ball and nobody knew exactly how the virus worked at the time.


So, are you saying we are in agreement when I said, "I honestly think they just didn't know."? LOL
 05/06/2021 10:05 AM
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Pagerow

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Originally posted by: Sniper

Covid has resulted in just over 250 deaths in kids 0-17. A typical flu season is double that.


That's not bad, (IF your number of 250 is true) since the COVID strain has a MUCH higher transmissibility rate, and a MUCH higher mortality rate than the common flu.

This means that the protection by using masks is working.
 05/06/2021 10:21 AM
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RiddleMe

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Sniper, you are wrong. Fauci has clarified exactly what and why thing happened regarding masks for the exact purpose of educating people like you. Besides, at the time it was widely known for the non-ignorant. Regarding your attempt to refut my comment about the Trump plan, your fact check link did not do that. Trump's plan execution literally ended at the state. Even our own governor commented about that live on Wesh one of his Covid pressers. Not to mention, that was echoed across the country by state governments, red and blue alike.
 05/06/2021 10:26 AM
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RiddleMe

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Originally posted by: Sniper
So, are you saying we are in agreement when I said, "I honestly think they just didn't know."? LOL


Specifically about making the call regarding schools? How could they know? When people like you and some of the dingbats like FK and Tpig cite the government 'changing' things its purpose generally is to attempt to discredit the severity of the pandemic or to justify irresponsible of asshole behavior.

It really boils down to common sense in realizing that information, guidance, and situations change based on acquired knowledge as well as regional or local spread. For the most part, regarding that specifically, it occurred exactly as one would expect in this situation and not really worth noting as a 'problem' because it isn't one.

Edited: 05/06/2021 at 10:26 AM by RiddleMe
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