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Topic Title: Medicare For All
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Created On: 02/16/2019 12:17 PM
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 02/16/2019 12:17 PM
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dingpatch

Posts: 19032
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Politics
Voters are souring on 'Medicare for all'
Rick Newman Fri, Feb 15 1:02 PM EST

If somebody offered you a sandwich for free, you'd probably take it. $10? You might take it, if it was really good. $30? No thanks.

Voters are beginning to do similar cost-benefit analysis on Medicare for all, the Democratic plan for universal health care that's sure to be a top campaign issue in 2020. In a January Morning Consult poll, 56% of respondents said they support Medicare for all, while 29% opposed it. Less than a month later, support fell to 50% while opposition rose to 38%.

The only thing that changed? People began to get a better understanding of what Medicare for all actually is - including the need to eliminate the private insurance system.

Democratic Sen. Kamala Harris, who's running for president, triggered this deeper level of analysis on January 29, when CNN's Jake Tapper asked her if she favored getting rid of private insurance. "Let's eliminate all that," Harris said. "We need to have Medicare for all."

'If you like your health care plan, you can keep it'

Americans feel no special love for insurance companies, but they're not eager to give up what they're familiar with, either. About 156 million Americans - nearly half the population - get health care coverage through their employer. Another 21 million buy their own insurance in the private market. So Medicare for all would move 177 million Americans from a health care system that generally works into a government-run system that has never covered that many people.

President Obama's famous mistake with the Affordable Care Act was telling Americans, untruthfully, "if you like your health care plan, you can keep it." At least 4 million people lost their coverage because it didn't meet new rules under the ACA. Obama's flub and the abrupt loss of coverage for those folks made the law unpopular from the start, and left it vulnerable to Republican efforts to kill it, which still aren't over.

Medicare for all would end insurance-as-we-know-it for 44 times as many people as were affected by the ACA changes. Medicare is generally a well-run program that its participants like - but extending it to the entire population would entail massive changes likely to put the program under stress.

The biggest change would be a profound reworking of the tax code, since Medicare for all would require at least $3 trillion a year in new government revenue. So business and individual taxes would rise across the board. There would be offsetting savings, since companies and individuals would no longer pay insurance premiums and many out-of-pocket costs. But the transition would be turbulent and some people would end up as net losers.

Extending coverage to everybody would also lead to a surge in demand for caregivers and facilities, which would almost certainly necessitate some kind of rationing. Overall health care outcomes might improve under Medicare for all, but there would be highly visible strains.

More plausible plans are beginning to surface. Some Congressional Democrats are pushing "Medicare at 50" legislation that would let people between 50 and 64 buy Medicare coverage the way they'd buy private insurance, except for some it would be way cheaper. That would help people who don't get coverage through an employer and earn too much money to qualify for ACA subsidies. Such people sometimes pay $20,000 or more in annual premiums. But there's already opposition from hospitals and other providers who worry that more Medicare coverage - and less private insurance - would hurt profits, because Medicare typically pays less. Even the simple-sounding plans are complicated.

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Dora Hates You
 02/16/2019 03:25 PM
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Cole

Posts: 68180
Joined Forum: 07/22/2003

Yes, it's too expensive, though I do find it odd that someone with your health issues would be so against cost free insurance.

If you want to see prices drop, factor a low cost government plan into the picture. Nothing will change as long as insurers make billions.

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I was right.
 02/16/2019 04:24 PM
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dingpatch

Posts: 19032
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

No, I did not post that excerpt as part of an "opinion".

I fully support "healthcare for all" although it certainly would be "expensive". It seems to be that quite a few folks do not want to "pay" for it.

But, I would have to assume that very many of the "I don't want to pay, , , ," folks are already paying more than they assume when you add in the true GROSS cost of their current plan.

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Dora Hates You
 02/16/2019 04:45 PM
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HAPDigital

Posts: 16855
Joined Forum: 11/29/2004

I'm not sure why people have no problem dishing out money month after month year after year to insurance companies for something that may or may not happen and when it does they try not to pay or do not pay the entire cost of procedures and meds. It's the dumbest thing ever yet people are against canning this BS and hate the idea of medica for all because they don't want their tax dollars going to other people. LOL. WTF is wrong with people? You are giving way more to finance people's yachts and lush lifestyles than you would if taxes went to socialized med care done the right way. Obamacare was F'ed up because it was really a Romneycare/GOPcare clusterf***. They just slapped Obama's name on there to do him harm with their bastardized version of something that would've been good.
 02/16/2019 05:01 PM
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theglide

Posts: 9422
Joined Forum: 08/06/2003

Medicare Advantage programs with insurance companies are excellent.

I don't know how they do it with the MA HMO plans getting about (140.00 ?) per month from the government in lieu of providing for the insured directly.
 02/16/2019 09:02 PM
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WG

Posts: 37257
Joined Forum: 03/10/2005

Medicare for all old people provides basic coverage today, as does a robust private supplemental nsurance industry, for those that can afford it.
Medicare for all not old people will be similar, except cost less because of its big pool of young and healthy humans.

Of course it will be paid for with taxes, a large shift of where you or your employer send that $600 or so every month. I would expect it to cost less this way though, people will see higher paychecks.
The economy will boom as more people tk entrepreneureal or creative risks with more basic needs satisfied.
You

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Edited: 02/16/2019 at 09:04 PM by WG
 02/17/2019 04:31 AM
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KeyserSoze

Posts: 898
Joined Forum: 03/30/2011

Yes, Medicare Advantage programs are pretty good - -

- - and yes, roughly $140 / month for "most" people.


Most think Medicare is $140 / month, but if you look into Medicare and if you have "income" of some sort - -
- - it can cost you more.


It's based on MAGI (modified adjusted gross income) from your taxes - -
- - for example: If your MAGI was $140,00 you would be paying $352.20 NOT the $140 / month.

Yes, most could probably afford this, - -
- - but sadly they are not aware of the increased cost.




Most people will pay the standard premium amount. If your modified adjusted gross
income is above a certain amount, you may pay an Income Related Monthly
Adjustment Amount (IRMAA). Medicare uses the modified adjusted gross income
reported on your IRS tax return from 2 years ago. This is the most recent tax return
information provided to Social Security by the IRS.

The standard Part B premium amount in 2019 is $135.50. Most people will pay the
standard Part B premium amount. If your modified adjusted gross income as reported
on your IRS tax return from 2 years ago is above a certain amount, you'll pay the
standard premium amount and an Income Related Monthly Adjustment Amount
(IRMAA). IRMAA is an extra charge added to your premium.





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Who is Keyser Soze?

 02/17/2019 05:25 AM
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Bamboo

Posts: 7987
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

I have never heard anyone complain about becoming eligible for medicare, no matter what their income level is. Why we don't have a medicare buy in or medicare for all system is a mystery...ok, it really isn't a mystery but it is sad.

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If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph: THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD WAS MUSIC - KV
 02/17/2019 05:39 AM
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dingpatch

Posts: 19032
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Sadly, it is not so much to do with the actual costs of "healthcare". It is the fact that, in the end, a multi-multi-billion dollar "middle-man-service" industry (big insurance) will be cut off from its life-blood.

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Dora Hates You
 02/17/2019 06:43 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33300
Joined Forum: 08/02/2004

Originally posted by: dingpatch

Sadly, it is not so much to do with the actual costs of "healthcare". It is the fact that, in the end, a multi-multi-billion dollar "middle-man-service" industry (big insurance) will be cut off from its life-blood.


And that's a massive savings. M4A is cheaper than what we have now.
It's a net savings.

As far as increased demand for providers, if we break the stranglehold of the AMA on the doctor supply, there are plenty of young people who could meet the demand of given scholarships.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 02/17/2019 09:35 AM
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RegularJoe

Posts: 3679
Joined Forum: 11/20/2011

I would rather see a government-provided public option compete with private insurance, but not require participation. If the government's offer is indeed a better deal, people will flock to it voluntarily.
 02/17/2019 10:07 AM
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all3

Posts: 2488
Joined Forum: 12/28/2011

Insurance in general is just weird. Think about it, every penny spent on premiums you hope is money that you are throwing away.

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"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"
 02/17/2019 10:19 AM
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RegularJoe

Posts: 3679
Joined Forum: 11/20/2011

It's legalized gambling. And the house always wins. Good player occasionally win as well.
 02/17/2019 12:35 PM
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all3

Posts: 2488
Joined Forum: 12/28/2011

How can you win? Getting your car stolen and then replaced with a better one? Having a $100'000 hospital bill mostly paid for? Maybe your house burns down and you get it rebuilt? No thanks. Or are you talking about filing bogus claims?

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"I remember South Africa in the late 70's, sleeping on the beach at J-bay, smoking ganja with the blacks. On weekends we'd go to the pub in East London to drink beer and fight with the Afrikaners. They liked to fight, I liked to fight. It was a good time"
 02/17/2019 02:10 PM
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theglide

Posts: 9422
Joined Forum: 08/06/2003

It's legalized gambling. And the house always wins.


As a whole the house always wins, which is how an insurance company can lose money to some patient(s) and still turn a nice profit.
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