From the vid, it did look like the fisherman was casting diagonally at the surfers. I wouldn't be surprised if his name was Gary. Unclear about who was there first, which only matters a little bit in the big picture.

Big question is whether the surfer actually threw a punch after confronting the fisherman. Can anyone confirm if he did?

FL law regarding imminent threat and use of excessive force changed a bit in 2014 from what we collectively understood before then, so there could possibly still be charges filed against the fisherman if the surfer came forward with a good story. Fists alone are not generally considered "deadly force," and it's pretty obvious a surfer coming out of the water in a full wetsuit is not in possession of any other weapon that could cause great bodily harm.

There's a lot of nuance and wiggle room (and surprising restrictions) in the laws as written, so a lot depends on whether the cops want to charge, DA wants to prosecute, and if so, what kinds of lawyers and juries are involved. Once someone is approached out of the blue and then punched, that usually has a big impact on how the legal process unfolds (or doesn't).

The FL CWP training course is a good place to start, but anyone who took the CWP training before 2014 should take a refresher. The "Florida Firearms" book by Jon H. Gutmacher is a really good reference, but make sure you've got the latest edition.

I'm surprised JB hasn't commented on this yet; I'm sure he would have some good insights once all the facts are known.

Lot's of people know ,,,,, see below.




JBPD is not pursuing the case. Fisherman assclown didn't want to pursue it further. Other surfers said they didn't know who the surfer in question was (they lied and JBPD knew it and didn't care). Some witnesses on the beach said that they didn't know who the surfer was (they lied and the JBPD knew it and didn't care)

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"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

Edited: 06/01/2023 at 11:57 AM by LBLarry

@LBL, Just to be clear, by "JB" I was referring to forum member JohnnyBoy (not "Jax Beach") who has some deeper knowledge of weapons laws than the average poster here.

and by "once the facts are known," I meant known to those reading this thread, not just the Jax locals.

I haven't seen a confirmation of whether a punch was actually thrown and landed, and was hoping since you had talked to first-hand witnesses, you might inform us.

And by following up with possible charges, what I was getting at is the surfer could potentially ask for charges to be filed against the fisherman even if the police initially declined, especially if the surfer didn't actually throw a punch, exhibit a deadly weapon, or show some kind of behavior that a reasonable person could believe would cause imminent and severe bodily harm or death (intent and means to follow it up).

So, if you've got that info, please throw us a bone and let us in on the secret.


Edited: 06/01/2023 at 02:19 PM by CurtisEflush

@CurtisEflush, I understood what/who you meant by "JB"

Sorry but you get no further information from me, on a public forum.

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"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

Is chucking a three ounce pyramid sinker at someone an act of aggression?

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I was right.

I have resisted because this is the type crazy shit I deal with all the time. I have a safe that is too full to put another gun in and all of them are from people who were arrested with them. I am happy the fisherman didn't kill this guy. There is definitely an east case fl be made for the surfer because a lead sinker from that distance at that speed is capable of causing death or great bodily harm. That would mean the surfer would have been legally justified in using equivalent force BUT that is only if the force continued or was imminent. It was not. The punch in the face would have expected if you were throwing lead sinkers at places and literally every other spot was open to you but you chose a spot where surfers were. You cannot escalate or cause an incident and then argue self defense especially if you are armed and the other person isn't. That being said, punching someone is not deadly force. It's a simple battery and the stand your ground defense requires a forcible felony. All of the arguments on here so far highlight the complexity of a rule that in practice had resulted in a shoot first culture that is ultimately unsustainable. A prosecutor and a defense attorney could each make compelling cases for each side and they would each be right depending on six strangers who showed to jury duty with no more qualifications than a valid drivers license. Kind of scary.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

Well said, JB. Thank you.

it's actually completely sustainable and will continue - til USA runs out of guns. discuss

The fisherman committed assault first. Maybe he is lucky nobody has "stood their ground" at him.

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Why does the surfer have a duty to retreat from assault by the fisherman but the fisherman doesn't have a duty to retreat from the surfer's retaliation? Maybe the surfer should do like the fisherman and use a gun to stop the initial assault. That certainly seems to be your position. Throw projectiles at unarmed people and it they retaliate then you are justified to pull a gun on them.

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Edited: 06/04/2023 at 06:02 AM by scombrid

Not just pull a gun, but they can then shoot you. This state, the state I was born in 67 years ago and in which have lived my whole life, has gone bat shit crazy.

It's about to get a lot worse too with permitless carry. More guns entering into more arguments.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

More guns entering into more arguments.


And for what, to prove you are right in an argument that probably didn't matter in the first place?

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I was right.

Unfortunately we live in a society where aggression is rewarded and it's considered weak and emasculating to "back down".

It's a function of a perceived diminishing privilege for white men mainly. They're desperate to convince themselves and their cohort that they're still "in charge" and not taking shit from anybody.
Maybe too many cowboy movies when they were kids too.



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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Strange that he knew he needed to take his gun to the beach. Jax must have some tough Whiting!

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I was right.

Tom Petty agrees

As is repeatedly shown on this page



-------------------------
"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

Nope. The furball "fisherman" got exactly what he wanted.
He was deliberately casting into a group of surfers. Trying to provoke an incident... or a shark attack.
Which is exactly why he had his widdle magagaga gugun
If he does it again....set the smurf up. Someone on beach and in the water with cameras.
Grab his line, fake being hooked, file assault charges.
Or simply blindside the chickenshit and take him for an outside paddling excursion.....free surf lesson, duude... learn surfing's breath holding techniques.
wearing his bait.....and his treble hooks

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It's a democratic hoax

Edited: 06/06/2023 at 05:46 PM by nukeh2o

Wonder how tough these guys are in a Mexican standoff. Pretty easy to pull a weapon towards someone who most likely is NOT carrying.