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Topic Title: Webb Telescope
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Created On: 12/28/2021 03:43 PM
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 12/28/2021 03:43 PM
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dingpatch

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Way back, in the 2000's, , , , , I worked for a defense contractor as a Sr, Subcontract Administrator. One of my main suppliers was a contractor in Alabama that was, pretty much, "Number One" anywhere. They manufactured the "sensor support housing" for an Army weapons sighting system that we worked on. The beryllium was "pure" in regard to DoD standards and such. Just the near-net-shape "blank" (you can call it a casting, but is not made like a "normal" metal casting). Anyway, just the price of the "blank" from the only qualified refiner was $42K each with a minimum order of 4 pieces. The machining and testing was $27K each with a quality level of NO DEFECTS and No reworks. The slightest "miss-cut" resulted in Scrap.

So, , , , , anyway, , , , a couple of times I went to their location for Program Reviews and such I got to see the Webb's mirrors being machined. As with the Army part I was responsible for, the Webb mirrors were following the same DoD material specs and such, with a very heavy layer of NASA spread all over it, and had volumes of paper for "quality", "safety", and such.

The "base price" for the mirror "castings" was $76K each. I did not know for sure about the "machining" part of the costs but, it could have easily been another $100K each.

Oh and, the mirrors that I saw in-work were not "Deliverables".

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Edited: 07/14/2022 at 05:20 AM by dingpatch
 12/29/2021 05:18 AM
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Burry

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Cool stuff Ding!!!!

i am on the edge for the next 25 days as "the Gadget" is starting to unfurl....

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Inflation caused The BIG BANG...look it up!
 12/29/2021 08:38 AM
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CurtisEflush

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It's neat when you live long enough to see some of these long-gestating babies grow up and do their thing. I'm hoping the same for one I've worked on.

NASA definitely learned a few things from Perkin-Elmer's mirror mistake on the Hubble Space Telescope:

Hubble's primary mirror was built by what was then called Perkin-Elmer Corporation, in Danbury, Connecticut. Once Hubble began returning images that were less clear than expected, NASA undertook an investigation to diagnose the problem. Ultimately the problem was traced to miscalibrated equipment during the mirror's manufacture. The result was a mirror with an aberration one-50th the thickness of a human hair, in the grinding of the mirror.

Replacing the mirror was not practical, so the best solution was to build replacement instruments that fixed the flaw much the same way a pair of glasses correct the vision of a near-sighted person. The corrective optics and new instruments were built and installed on Hubble by spacewalking astronauts during a shuttle mission in 1993. The Corrective Optics Space Telescope Axial Replacement (COSTAR) instrument, about the size of a telephone booth, placed into Hubble five pairs of corrective mirrors that countered the effects of the flaw.


https://www.nasa.gov/content/hubbles-mirror-flaw
 12/29/2021 08:43 AM
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johnnyboy

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The origami involved is amazing. I'm fascinated by the whole thing. The heat shield. The precision, the planning. This telescope was its own economy.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 12/29/2021 02:39 PM
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Cole

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Can someone explain the one million mile position to me? Is it just sitting in space or is there still some minor influence from the Earth?

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 12/29/2021 02:53 PM
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StirfryMcflurry

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I would attempt to try coal, butt - judging from your posts over in NSR, its..... over your head
 12/29/2021 05:58 PM
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CurtisEflush

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Originally posted by: Cole
Can someone explain the one million mile position to me? Is it just sitting in space or is there still some minor influence from the Earth?


Summary quoted below. More details, images, and a cool animation here.

The James Webb Space Telescope will not be in orbit around the Earth, like the Hubble Space Telescope is - it will actually orbit the Sun, 1.5 million kilometers (1 million miles) away from the Earth at what is called the second Lagrange point or L2. What is special about this orbit is that it lets the telescope stay in line with the Earth as it moves around the Sun. This allows the satellite's large sunshield to protect the telescope from the light and heat of the Sun and Earth (and Moon).


 12/30/2021 11:13 AM
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crankit

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Was the blank a forging or casting, and Beryllium is a banned materiel in most places now.

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 12/30/2021 11:48 AM
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dingpatch

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The "blank" is made by the process of Hot Isostatic Pressing. The beryllium used is more-or-less in a powder form and it is then "pressed" in a "mold" under very high pressure and temperature.

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Edited: 12/30/2021 at 11:49 AM by dingpatch
 12/30/2021 02:55 PM
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Cole

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Originally posted by: CurtisEflush

Originally posted by: Cole

Can someone explain the one million mile position to me? Is it just sitting in space or is there still some minor influence from the Earth?




Summary quoted below. More details, images, and a cool animation here.



The James Webb Space Telescope will not be in orbit around the Earth, like the Hubble Space Telescope is - it will actually orbit the Sun, 1.5 million kilometers (1 million miles) away from the Earth at what is called the second Lagrange point or L2. What is special about this orbit is that it lets the telescope stay in line with the Earth as it moves around the Sun. This allows the satellite's large sunshield to protect the telescope from the light and heat of the Sun and Earth (and Moon).


Quite impressive, as were the maths involved.

I really hope they pull it off with no hitches.



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 12/30/2021 08:45 PM
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StirfryMcflurry

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Originally posted by: crankit Beryllium is a banned materiel in most places now.
ONLY ON PLANET KKKRANKY. The use of beryllium and beryllium-containing materials is not banned, restricted or otherwise limited by any country worldwide.
 12/31/2021 05:22 AM
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Bamboo

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just an FYI - Beryllium is certainly not a banned material. In it's pure and alloyed forms it is used all the time in aerospace applications, and will be for a long time because it has unique properties.

OSHA and the DoD are now more sensitive about its handling and machining and there are warnings, but nothing really crazy.
Fine Be dust or BeO is what you need to be careful with as it can cause lung issues and cancer. Handling solid Be isn't an issue at all, but it is recommended to treat it like you handled Pb....don't eat, don't smoke, don't lick your fingers, and wash your hands well after handling it.

Trivia bonus points - some 1911 brands used to use BeCu as their frame material and it is used in musical instruments like tambourines, too.



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If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph: THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD WAS MUSIC - KV
 01/01/2022 05:32 AM
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pompano

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Yeah, we use beryllium compounds in aerospace applications. It is just a hassle to work with, and probably why Crankit thought it was banned, as he couldn't work with it in his shop due to the protocols (no sanding, collect all residuals, must do training, etc.). expect to continue to hear more about the Lagrange points.
 01/01/2022 05:42 AM
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Burry

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The arms are extended!!!! next is for the shields to be tightened up!

crankit once had a Beryllium enema and i think that is maybe what he is talking about!!!!

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BurrysBreak

Inflation caused The BIG BANG...look it up!
 01/01/2022 08:37 AM
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StirfryMcflurry

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Originally posted by: Burry crankit once had a Beryllium enema and i think that is maybe what he is talking about!!!!
LMAO 5/5 &
 01/01/2022 10:35 AM
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RiddleMe

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Originally posted by: Burry
crankit once had a Beryllium enema and i think that is maybe what he is talking about!!!!


Hahahahaaaa
 01/02/2022 05:57 AM
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Bamboo

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Originally posted by: Burry

The arms are extended!!!! next is for the shields to be tightened up!



crankit once had a Beryllium enema and i think that is maybe what he is talking about!!!!


LOL, well played burry!

(Actually, I had one after an injury. The tech introduced herself as "Hi, my name is Olga and I'll be giving you the procedure". I was like awwwww crap....
She was actually really nice and had a great sense of humor.)



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If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph: THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD WAS MUSIC - KV
 01/03/2022 11:36 AM
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crankit

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Methinks burry is confused (hopefully not age related) about his Barium enema, which is radioactive whereas beryllium can be carcinogenic and would not be used as an enema!

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 01/03/2022 01:00 PM
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johnnyboy

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IF this unfolds and comes together perfectly, this will be a pivotal moment in our species understanding of our universe.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 01/03/2022 03:30 PM
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StirfryMcflurry

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Originally posted by: johnnyboy IF this unfolds and comes together perfectly, this will be a pivotal moment in our species understanding of ....our anoverse.
lol! BURRY'S, OR CRANKY'S?
FORUMS : NPNR : Webb Telescope

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