Hang 10... or as they now say...hit the lip!

2nd Light Forums
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: Britain faces 'waste battery mountain' as electric car use surges
Topic Summary:
Created On: 11/09/2019 05:16 AM
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 11/09/2019 05:16 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


dingpatch

Posts: 14008
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

I dumped my old Prius battery in the lagoon, , , , , , not sure what the big deal could be, , , ,

Britain faces 'waste battery mountain' as electric car use surges
The Telegraph Charles Hymas,The Telegraph 16 hours ago

Electric car - REUTERS

Britain faces a new waste crisis from a " battery mountain" caused by the growing use of electric cars, according to an academic study.

Researchers have calculated that the one million electric cars sold in 2017 alone will produce 250,000 metric tons, or half a million cubic metres, of unprocessed battery pack waste when they reach the end of their lives in seven to ten years' time, enough to fill 67 Olympic swimming pools.

At present, the one million cars account for just 1.3 per cent of annual worldwide sales but it is projected that electric cars could make up more than half of all new sales by 2040 as part of efforts to combat climate change.

The researchers say landfill is not an option for waste lithium batteries which are flammable and could release toxic chemicals such as cobalt, nickel and magnesium into the environment.

Professor Andrew Abbott, of Leicester University and co-author of the paper, said it was vital to find ways of recycling the batteries to safeguard the environment and extra precious metals and materials that could be reused.

"Electrification of just two per cent of the current global car fleet would represent a line of cars that could stretch around the circumference of the Earth - some 140 million vehicles. Landfill is clearly not an option for this amount of waste," he said.

"Finding ways to recycle EV batteries will not only avoid a huge burden on landfill, it will also help us secure the supply of critical materials, such as cobalt and lithium, that surely hold the key to a sustainable automotive industry."

One option could be to use batteries that are no longer powerful enough for a car to do less demanding tasks such as store electricity from wind turbines and solar farms.

The report also said better ways to gauge the health of a battery would make it easier to assess whether they could be reused or repaired.

But most important, it said, would be to develop recycling techniques similar to those for lead batteries, where 100 per cent of the materials are recycled.

Dr Gavin Harper, of Birmingham University and lead author on the paper, said: "As well as lithium, these batteries contain a number of other valuable metals, such as cobalt, nickel and manganese, and there is the potential to improve the processes which are currently used to recover these for reuse."

Research suggests eight factories will be needed in the UK by 2040 to cope with the surge in electric car use.
 11/11/2019 10:27 AM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message


matt_t

Posts: 1265
Joined Forum: 10/21/2003

They can be recycled now. google is your friend.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122631_tesla-launches-battery-recycling-at-nevada-gigafactory


should be good for economies by creating new recycling industries.

Edited: 11/11/2019 at 10:28 AM by matt_t
 11/11/2019 10:56 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Sniper

Posts: 5811
Joined Forum: 09/24/2003

It will be interesting to see what electric cars do to the used car market. On a gasoline powered car, the most expensive items you can expect to replace would probably be engine and transmission. All cars are different but for most cars, you can get a new or rebuilt option for both for $1500-2000. I've only heard one first-hand story of one person having to replace the electric batteries in a car and this person said it cost them $8000. I've read that in various cars, it can cost anywhere from $5K-29K.

Most Americans don't keep $5K in reserves just in case their car breaks down. If someone has an electric car, the batteries give out, and they don't have the money to repair it, then they have to try to sell a car that doesn't work. Ever try to sell a car that needs a new engine? Resell value goes down far below what is needed just to do the repair. Unless something changes drastically, then it looks like many of these electric cars are basically meant to be disposable cars or that there will be some screaming deals on used ones when people don't have the money to replace batteries.

For example, it costs around $8,500 to replace the 24Kwh battery in a Nissan LEAF. If the vehicle is 7 years old or older then it costs you more to replace the batteries than the car is worth. That's a problem.

Edited: 11/11/2019 at 11:22 AM by Sniper
 11/11/2019 03:23 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Greensleeves

Posts: 12431
Joined Forum: 07/22/2003

It's called the product life cycle. The price will come down.

Or since the GOP has gone spending crazy and they all look the other way now 8500 won't be too much in the future!

The GOP dopes are hilarious with their grade level economic theory.

-------------------------
 11/13/2019 01:09 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message


matt_t

Posts: 1265
Joined Forum: 10/21/2003

Originally posted by: Sniper

It will be interesting to see what electric cars do to the used car market. On a gasoline powered car, the most expensive items you can expect to replace would probably be engine and transmission. All cars are different but for most cars, you can get a new or rebuilt option for both for $1500-2000. I've only heard one first-hand story of one person having to replace the electric batteries in a car and this person said it cost them $8000. I've read that in various cars, it can cost anywhere from $5K-29K.



Most Americans don't keep $5K in reserves just in case their car breaks down. If someone has an electric car, the batteries give out, and they don't have the money to repair it, then they have to try to sell a car that doesn't work. Ever try to sell a car that needs a new engine? Resell value goes down far below what is needed just to do the repair. Unless something changes drastically, then it looks like many of these electric cars are basically meant to be disposable cars or that there will be some screaming deals on used ones when people don't have the money to replace batteries.



For example, it costs around $8,500 to replace the 24Kwh battery in a Nissan LEAF. If the vehicle is 7 years old or older then it costs you more to replace the batteries than the car is worth. That's a problem.


This is a valid point
but short sighted..
you can buy various versions of batteries already.. just like many people choose to install a rebuilt engine instead of a new one after an engine failure.
People have that option now with smartphone replacement batteries.

Or just as in your Nissan Leaf example, people elect to scrap their ICE vehicles when repair cost more than the cars value. That's common with any vehicle. Few ICE cars are reliable after 100/150k miles. I had a Mercedes ML go 225k before the transmission died which cost more than it was worth.

Prices of batteries are already coming down and as battery tech and battery production continues to mature..

Electrics have little maint which makes up quite a difference in cost of ownership Other than AC, brakes and tires, is there any other maint cost?
No tranny, coolant, timing belts... other weird O2 sensors and such.

I guess the big question is "how long will the crop of EV's last? " Especially these newer generation models. 100k? 250k? More?

For the record: I always thought the leaf was a piece of crap. A glorified golf cart IMO.

I'd imagine in the future, car makers will offer extended battery warranty coverage if they do not already.. at 45k-250k price range, Tesla buyers prob can afford extra warranty cost.





Statistics
145984 users are registered to the 2nd Light Forums forum.
There are currently 4 users logged in to the forum.

FuseTalk Basic Edition - © 1999-2019 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.

Hey Matt B ... How the hell o are you ??? :)