http://www.npr.org/sections/mo...pitalism-has-a-problem

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

Now that the capitalists can openly purchase political power, the end game is in sight. There will be a frenzied cash grab and then either tyrannical oligarchy, socialist reform, or complete collapse and barbarism.
Alongside that we may lose natural resources and lives which can never be replaced. Parts of the planet may be left uninhabitable.



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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Captialism has worked better than any other system. We have all that we have due to that system. Venezuela has all that is has due to it's system, communism. Most people would take capitalism.

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I :heart; Q

no need for socialist reform. need to level playing field, break up large corporations, campaign finance reform, remove the ability for corps to lobby, regulate executive pay and bonuses, regulate corporate profits - in the sense of ensuring employees get their due fairly with shareholders. all for 'social programs', but socialism is a failed concept. we can provide jobs for those capable of working in lieu of welfare and use that labor force to fix our collapsing infrastructure. work on providing viable and solvent healthcare solutions for all, etc

So do what the democratic socialist want to do, just call it something else. I agree.

Keep gov't out of it. Gov't is the worrisome entity, not corporations. I can't think of any corporation that ever committed genocide, enslaved people or threw people into gulags and the like. Gov'ts do those things as a matter of course.

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I :heart; Q

These guys don't know what socialism is, and they aren't interested in learning anything. I should probably stop using the term because it gives these guys nightmares.

They think that material relations are static, nothing changes, and see no historical dialectic at work throughout history.

Let's go with bringing democracy to the workplace and the economy at large, ending exploitation, and addressing alienation.

That's less scary than the S word I think.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company

http://revealinghistories.org.uk/africa-the-arrival-of-europeans-and-the-transatlantic-slave-trade/articles/triangular-trade-and-multiple-profits.html

Big profits were made not just by those directly involved in slaving or plantation economies, but also by banks. These banks were most often based in cities such as Liverpool and London. The foundation of the Bank of England in 1694 in London was crucial to trade regulation and the securing of profits. As trade profits grew, so did the banks and other financial institutions.

From the late 1600s to the 1800s, the providing of insurance, loans and other more complex trading instruments created massive new opportunities for making money. All this helped create modern capitalism. Indeed, it is one of the great ironies of history that a crude labour system like slavery was at the heart of the development of the modern global economy.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Edited: 04/16/2019 at 07:43 AM by RustyTruck

you do live in this country right? most of the government is dangling from marionette strings, controlled by corporate puppet masters

instead of insulting, maybe understand where other people are coming from. i know exactly what socialism is. you dont need to 'educate' me on it, i simply believe something different than you. i am all for strong social programs, fixing our system, ensuring corporate leaches dont continue to suck us dry, etc but that is not socialism. it is sensible capitalism. you want to get rid of capitalism all together and replace it with socialism judging by posts i have read of yours since becoming active on the boards again

Edited: 04/16/2019 at 07:50 AM by RiddleMe

sure, i agree, lot of stigma associated with 'socialism' and the democratic socialists would have much more traction without it

Correct, I live here in Florida. To the extent that politicians are controlled by their "corporate puppet masters," that is a problem with gov't, not the corporations.

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I :heart; Q

sensible capitalism with socialist programs.

A spade is a spade.

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I was right.

no, it isnt the government or the corporations. it is simply a function of human nature and greed. money money money, baby. you have it, you buy influence. you want it, you sell your services. the problem is the voters that refuse to put people in office with integrity that are willing and capable of fixing things

nope. a spork

If you believe that people should be able to use their accumulated fortunes to steal the wealth produced by those who have less power in the economy, then that's on you. It's fundamentally immoral.

The neoliberal policies you espouse only server to maintain the status quo and support a class structure where liberal elites pay lip service to the working class while secretly enjoying the benefits of affiliation with the capitalist class.

Some of you guys defend capitalism like you owned a factory or something.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Call it what you want, but we all pay into the State for the greater good.

I'm fine with that.



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I was right.

we have cases of corporate theft, using your definition, going on that need to be rectified as i already mentioned. too much in the opposite direction, what you seem to propose often, is stealing as well. the victims are just different. reflect on that a little before you preach morality to someone else

Rusty first needs to provide a supportable definition of "stealing." I assume his definition will include the word "fair." He then needs to define what is fair in his view, and then specify who gets to define "fair" in a real socialist system, and explain why it is actually "fair."

You're mistaken Riddle, I propose no theft. You've convinced yourself that corporations are entitled to steal the majority of the wealth created by their workers.

The "State" should be the people, wholley enfranchised and informed without propaganda, deciding the direction of the economy and public investment.

Under capitalism we use produce what the wealthy will buy, not what the people need. We have cheap smartphones but expensive insulin. Affordable internet but no national healthcare system.

More than 50% of "Go Fund Me" campaigns are for medical expenses but let's watch Game of Thrones.

I refuse to accept that as a normal and natural state of humankind. It's perverse.



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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti