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Topic Title: Here we go again
Topic Summary: Activer shooter TX school
Created On: 05/18/2018 06:41 AM
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 05/21/2018 03:46 PM
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dingpatch

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The Bottom Line is that, , , , Soft Targets will always be Soft Targets.

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 05/21/2018 03:56 PM
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Fish Killer

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Originally posted by: dingpatch

The Bottom Line is that, , , , Soft Targets will always be Soft Targets.


Lie!

They most assuredly don't have to be!

Remove the gun free zone law that Joe Biden invented!

Problem solved!

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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.
 05/22/2018 03:01 AM
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Sparky

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  Something that I don't think has been mentioned. How many school shootings have taken place in a private school? Maybe like most things that government can't handle or does not want to handle a private company can handle? Just a thought.

 What would it take to modify the school day? Tighten up entry points. I don't see this costing some that much money. Little things like working towards removing the need for backpacks. C'mon already do we still need kids carrying all that crap around? Their is definetly some inexpensive, low tech ways to help.

 I have worked in our local school system and agree teacher pay sucks. The top is not doing too bad though. I have seen technology and secruity systems already installed in our local schools that teachers and administrators have refused to accept and learn how they function. It's always we are way too busy and underpaid to be fooling with that stuff.

My position is I don't care anymore about gun laws. I just know plenty of things can happen before you try and get all the scary looking guns banned.

 

 05/22/2018 04:29 AM
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HAPDigital

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"I don't care." Pretty much sums it up. You want what you want with absolutely no responsibility and accountability yet you want others to add that burden to their already complex lives. So freaking selfish. Your not even willing to try some simple and practical regulations that would not really hinder any gun owner or manufacturer rights, just make them more responsible. Then say it won't work without even trying it. You'd rather turn Ms. Jones into Charlie Bronson. Pretty messed up if you ask me.
 05/22/2018 04:47 AM
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miker

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426Blue - anyways, the truth is that you aren't going to change the current gun culture overnight. It is deep seeded and will take decades to undo even if the NRA dissolved tomorrow. Likewise, if strict gun regulations and bans on certain weapons were to go into place tomorrow, it would take decades for those currently in circulation to reduce in number enough to have impact. I agree it is important to play the long game for lasting impact, but the absolute truth is that we need to do something now with immediate impact to harden our schools so they aren't such easy targets.

It is extremely hard for me to understand why some dingbat liberals are so opposed to this and are completely willing to let children get shot up in schools in the meantime. Why not do both? It it so hard to cross your party line stance that you would rather watch children die in schools? This nonsense about who is going to pay for it is simply that..... nonsense. The money is there if you demand it. You can organize and put on pink pussy hats and protest for women's rights and you can riot in the streets and burn down your own neighborhoods for black lives matter... well what about your fucking kids? What percentage of our defense spending would need to be diverted to accomplish securing the schools? What about using proceeds from licensing, registration, and transfer of firearms to fund hardening schools. What about an Additional sales tax added to firearm purchases to assist in that? Sure a lot of the money is going to have to go to managing the registration, licensing, and enforcement of the additional laws.... only naive idiots think that shit is free, but as long as there is strict oversight and control of those funds, perhaps by nonpartisan third parties, we can start working on our schools.

But no.... better to stick to party lines than to do something comprehensive.
 05/22/2018 05:02 AM
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Cole

Posts: 68179
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They had a plan and they had armed officers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...utm_term=.02401e003281

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I was right.
 05/22/2018 05:03 AM
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stokedpanda

Posts: 4226
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Originally posted by: miker

426Blue - anyways, the truth is that you aren't going to change the current gun culture overnight. It is deep seeded and will take decades to undo even if the NRA dissolved tomorrow. Likewise, if strict gun regulations and bans on certain weapons were to go into place tomorrow, it would take decades for those currently in circulation to reduce in number enough to have impact. I agree it is important to play the long game for lasting impact, but the absolute truth is that we need to do something now with immediate impact to harden our schools so they aren't such easy targets.



It is extremely hard for me to understand why some dingbat liberals are so opposed to this and are completely willing to let children get shot up in schools in the meantime. Why not do both? It it so hard to cross your party line stance that you would rather watch children die in schools? This nonsense about who is going to pay for it is simply that..... nonsense. The money is there if you demand it. You can organize and put on pink pussy hats and protest for women's rights and you can riot in the streets and burn down your own neighborhoods for black lives matter... well what about your fucking kids? What percentage of our defense spending would need to be diverted to accomplish securing the schools? What about using proceeds from licensing, registration, and transfer of firearms to fund hardening schools. What about an Additional sales tax added to firearm purchases to assist in that? Sure a lot of the money is going to have to go to managing the registration, licensing, and enforcement of the additional laws.... only naive idiots think that shit is free, but as long as there is strict oversight and control of those funds, perhaps by nonpartisan third parties, we can start working on our schools.



But no.... better to stick to party lines than to do something comprehensive.


What is lame; As you mentioned party politics could end this in a stalemate simply over the branding of the idea: making schools more safe.

Some people may vote for promises to HARDEN(red) schools, while that "branding" may scare away others who may respond better to campaigns to make SMARTER(blue) schools.

Both the same concept's goals- to make them safer, but the branding and courier of the message needs to be simplified for best results, sadly our two party system does the opposite and wont take a good idea if it means working across the isle.


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 05/22/2018 05:09 AM
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HAPDigital

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The self proclaimed "smart people" have yet to show where funding would come from for all their great ideas. Just a note, I'm willing to pay any amount of tax if it will help kids, the education system and health system so let's not go there again. Not once have you explained why schools can't get pencils yet you think they can get bullet proof glass, door lock down systems, cameras, armed guards, metal detectors and on and on. FYI there are waaaaay more schools in the USA than airports and courthouses and the TSA's budget is an incredible number annually. You "smart" guys can do the numbers on how much money it would take to achieve what you are proposing. It's not so practical as you think, unless you're willing to fork out some big tax money. However, current admin has proven they want less taxes, especially for those that have. Your stance is hypocritical and unfeasible. You also bring up private schools yet you don't weigh in obvious factors like poverty levels, family support structure, etc etc. There is way more to it than it just being a private school. But you guys are smart, right?
 05/22/2018 05:46 AM
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Cole

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Trump and co say mental illness is the issue, then they cut funding to mental healthcare.

Either they don't care that our kids are getting gunned down or they don't believe that mental health is the real issue.

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 05/22/2018 06:20 AM
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miker

Posts: 7813
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Originally posted by: Cole
Trump and co say mental illness is the issue, then they cut funding to mental healthcare.

Either they don't care that our kids are getting gunned down or they don't believe that mental health is the real issue.


Please.... mental illness absolutely is part of the issue and we need better mental health care in this country, especially for our youth. Our culture also contributes to the mental health of our youth because kids are no longer prepared to deal with hardships properly. They are far far more susceptible to going of the deep end because of this than the youth 30+ years ago were. Generation X/Y have created an absolute mess with how we parented our children for the most part. Protecting them instead of teaching them to deal with it.....

Yeah gun culture is a problem, but so is our culture in general. Combined with piss poor mental health care in this country and the fact that we medicate for it first instead of as a last resort, umm yeah.. houston we have a huge problem. Blaming it on something singular is stupid and naive imo.

Edit: and yes, the Republican hypocrisy on mental health care is deplorable.
 05/22/2018 06:23 AM
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miker

Posts: 7813
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Originally posted by: stokedpanda

What is lame; As you mentioned party politics could end this in a stalemate simply over the branding of the idea: making schools more safe.

Some people may vote for promises to HARDEN(red) schools, while that "branding" may scare away others who may respond better to campaigns to make SMARTER(blue) schools.

Both the same concept's goals- to make them safer, but the branding and courier of the message needs to be simplified for best results, sadly our two party system does the opposite and wont take a good idea if it means working across the isle.


So sad, but so true.
 05/22/2018 06:30 AM
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Cole

Posts: 68179
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I agree Mike, we need to fund mental issues, but not only that, we need to bring them to the foreground and view them as a true sickness and not just something to keep locked away in a dark room or via deep medication.

Realistic gun measures need to be undertaken sooner than later.

And finally, schools need to be protected and I don't care if they end up looking like an Israeli airport, our children are worth it.

Tax firearms and their related accessories to earn the required capital, that will bring the NRA to the negotiating table.

-------------------------
I was right.
 05/22/2018 06:32 AM
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HAPDigital

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All the main reasons it will take time to fix but initiating a super expensive security force in schools is no quick solution nor has it proved to work to deter violence in schools. It has a lot of possibilities for catastrophe, especially when you consider armed guards which have been proven to cause more violence than not. Gun regs and better health care for the masses.
 05/22/2018 06:35 AM
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stokedpanda

Posts: 4226
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Originally posted by: HAPDigital

The self proclaimed "smart people" have yet to show where funding would come from for all their great ideas. Just a note, I'm willing to pay any amount of tax if it will help kids, the education system and health system so let's not go there again. Not once have you explained why schools can't get pencils yet you think they can get bullet proof glass, door lock down systems, cameras, armed guards, metal detectors and on and on. FYI there are waaaaay more schools in the USA than airports and courthouses and the TSA's budget is an incredible number annually. You "smart" guys can do the numbers on how much money it would take to achieve what you are proposing. It's not so practical as you think, unless you're willing to fork out some big tax money. However, current admin has proven they want less taxes, especially for those that have. Your stance is hypocritical and unfeasible. You also bring up private schools yet you don't weigh in obvious factors like poverty levels, family support structure, etc etc. There is way more to it than it just being a private school. But you guys are smart, right?


maybe my view on schools is limited, but in my years at cocoa beach high- there was not a pencil shortage. My sister and several friends teach at schools in very low income areas of duval county, and they have pencils.....is that just hyperbole or??

some of my aforementioned teacher friends would have paid out of pocket to have the cameras installed but are trying to get around privacy issues with the public school board- funding may be an issue but should not be a show stopper, until/unless it becomes one.

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 05/22/2018 06:42 AM
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HAPDigital

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It's not hyperbole. Budgets for schools are slim, known fact. Billion upon billions of dollars for security measures is not going to happen, we know this. Cameras will just record the tragic events, not deter. These kids want to be seen.
 05/22/2018 07:08 AM
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Fish Killer

Posts: 71439
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Originally posted by: Cole

Trump and co say mental illness is the issue, then they cut funding to mental healthcare.
Either they don't care that our kids are getting gunned down or they don't believe that mental health is the real issue.


Liar!

-------------------------
The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.
 05/22/2018 07:22 AM
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miker

Posts: 7813
Joined Forum: 04/05/2010

Originally posted by: stokedpanda

Originally posted by: HAPDigital



The self proclaimed "smart people" have yet to show where funding would come from for all their great ideas. Just a note, I'm willing to pay any amount of tax if it will help kids, the education system and health system so let's not go there again. Not once have you explained why schools can't get pencils yet you think they can get bullet proof glass, door lock down systems, cameras, armed guards, metal detectors and on and on. FYI there are waaaaay more schools in the USA than airports and courthouses and the TSA's budget is an incredible number annually. You "smart" guys can do the numbers on how much money it would take to achieve what you are proposing. It's not so practical as you think, unless you're willing to fork out some big tax money. However, current admin has proven they want less taxes, especially for those that have. Your stance is hypocritical and unfeasible. You also bring up private schools yet you don't weigh in obvious factors like poverty levels, family support structure, etc etc. There is way more to it than it just being a private school. But you guys are smart, right?




maybe my view on schools is limited, but in my years at cocoa beach high- there was not a pencil shortage. My sister and several friends teach at schools in very low income areas of duval county, and they have pencils.....is that just hyperbole or??



some of my aforementioned teacher friends would have paid out of pocket to have the cameras installed but are trying to get around privacy issues with the public school board- funding may be an issue but should not be a show stopper, until/unless it becomes one.


Just had to quote him didn't you, lol ...I am trying not to see his whining drivel. Maybe he has me blocked too.... only reason to explain why he posted that when I very clearly identified how we could go about possibly paying for it. His solution seems to be just to bitch about it while throwing his hands up in the air saying it is all impossible while attacking anyone that has a different opinion than his.
 05/22/2018 07:34 AM
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miker

Posts: 7813
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Originally posted by: Cole

And finally, schools need to be protected and I don't care if they end up looking like an Israeli airport, our children are worth it.

Tax firearms and their related accessories to earn the required capital, that will bring the NRA to the negotiating table.



Agreed.

So if we pass stricter gun laws and require training, registration, and licensing we have to ensure fees for those are enough to cover the adminstration expenses (DMVs do the same thing... and someone has to pay for all that) and additional enforcement involved while still having enough left over to shuttle to the schools.

1. Registration Fee (the firearm itself, similar to car registration). Proceeds after admin costs go to protecting schools.

2. Transfer Fees (like transferring registration of a vehicle). Proceeds after admin costs go to protecting schools.

3. License Fee (for the individual to be able to possess and operate, ie like a car). Proceeds after admin costs go to protecting schools.

4. Firearm, accessory, and munitions tax with guarantees and non partisan oversight so that it all gets distributed to protecting schools. (cams, universal coms, centrally locking doors, ballistic glass)

5. Very stiff penalties for violation of laws, in which a portion of the monetary portion of the penalty is guaranteed to go towards protecting schools.


Obviously numbers and details would have to get worked out, but something like that *could* work.
 05/22/2018 07:38 AM
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miker

Posts: 7813
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In addition:

1. License and registration fees are waived for active duty veterans as well as any 21yo age requirements for purchasing.

2. Combat and disabled veterans get lifetime waiver of licensing fees (not registration or transfer).


Reasons:

1. It is ludicrous that an 18 year old can fight and die for our country and use weaponry far more powerful than anything that can be purchased in your local gun store and be unable to buy a rifle to go hunting with.

2. Just because they deserve it and have far more training and experience than anyone else.
 05/22/2018 07:50 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33300
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The trouble with fees would be the potential to disarm the poor. I would suggest a waiver for low income workers.



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