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Topic Title: Carrier
Topic Summary: We are pleased to have reached a deal with President-elect Trump & VP-elect Pence to keep close to 1,000 jobs in Indy.
Created On: 11/30/2016 10:26 AM
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 11/30/2016 10:26 AM
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JTsurfer

Posts: 159
Joined Forum: 08/24/2010

Watch for the announcement tomorrow and then tell us why this is a bad thing to have someone want to help keep jobs here.

 11/30/2016 10:47 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33298
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Did you support TARP?



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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 11/30/2016 10:57 AM
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SlimyBritches

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There's 1400 employees. They're keeping 1000. Drumph didn't use his yuge expertise in negotiations to come to adeal with Carrier. Rather, he and the state of Indiana, Pense, gave Carrier lots of money through state "incentives" and tax breaks in order to convince the company to stay.
That's not negotiation, that's bribery.
That just gives all the other richies a way to be showered with gubmint funds.

HEY, Drumpence. I'm thinking about moving my bidniz to Costa Rica! But, for a lesser incentive, I can be persuaded to stay.
 11/30/2016 11:05 AM
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RustyTruck

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During the campaign trump said he would slap them with a fat tariff. Now he's offering handouts.

Seems that sort of thing is frowned upon when democrats do it. Just sayin'


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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 11/30/2016 11:24 AM
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skatensurf

Posts: 2475
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Originally posted by: SlimyBritches

There's 1400 employees. They're keeping 1000. Drumph didn't use his yuge expertise in negotiations to come to adeal with Carrier. Rather, he and the state of Indiana, Pense, gave Carrier lots of money through state "incentives" and tax breaks in order to convince the company to stay.

That's not negotiation, that's bribery.


Actually, that is negotiation. Companies operate to make money.

No company is just going to decide they want to audible from a plan that is going to save them money without being incentivised to do so.
 11/30/2016 11:39 AM
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RustyTruck

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Can American manufacturing be saved by "incentivising" every business who threatens to relocate a factory?

Where does the line start? You know everyone wants a freebie.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 11/30/2016 12:01 PM
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skatensurf

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^It can't be saved that way, but every relocation deal involves a heavy amount of incentives. This one was pretty much all PR and only possible because Pence was the governor, but that doesn't mean it was a bad deal. I couldn't really find any details about the exact incentives offered, so the jury is still out on this one, but the use of incentives is not new or a bribe/handout.

We will have to wait for him to be president to see whether his policies allow the manufacturers to make more money in the US, without providing specific incentives to keep them here on each deal. Even then though, cities/counties/states are going to compete for the manufacturing jobs via incentive packages.
 11/30/2016 12:50 PM
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daner

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Government subsides for companies is a good thing. Very socialist. Go Trump!

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Replace turf grass with native plants that don't need irrigation and synthetic fertilizers or chemicals that can go into our waterways and ocean

 11/30/2016 01:14 PM
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3rdworldlover

Posts: 22495
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We went from tax breaks to no tax.
Now we're paying them to stay and routinely paying off massive incomprehensible losses.
This pampering is getting expensive


 11/30/2016 01:28 PM
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johnnyboy

Posts: 25071
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If the rich are not paying taxes and the corporations aren't either, who pays for the garbage pick up, the fire department, the 911 operators, the health inspectors. You know, all those things that make your life first world.

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"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 11/30/2016 01:31 PM
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Sniper

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Based on what I have read here, it is difficult to make a decision.

What specific tax breaks were offered in exchange for keeping the jobs? What is the meat of this deal?

You would have to weigh the cost of the subsidies against those workers being out of work, potentially leaving the state entirely, or even worse not working and going on some form of government assistance.

I'm sure Carrier would prefer to keep their operation here, if it makes economic sense for them. Moving an operation like this can't be easy and must take a lot of time.

One can only assume that all parties were able to meet in the middle and it sounds like they agreed on a deal that made more sense than the alternative.

I don't think I have ever seen a President working towards projects like this before their inauguration. I'm not making any judgements about it, one way or the other at this point. Just an observation.

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"The government who robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul," - George Bernard Shaw

“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f—k things up.” - Barack Obama

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 11/30/2016 02:00 PM
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obx2

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Originally posted by: Sniper Based on what I have read here, it is difficult to make a decision. What specific tax breaks were offered in exchange for keeping the jobs? What is the meat of this deal? You would have to weigh the cost of the subsidies against those workers being out of work, potentially leaving the state entirely, or even worse not working and going on some form of government assistance. I'm sure Carrier would prefer to keep their operation here, if it makes economic sense for them. Moving an operation like this can't be easy and must take a lot of time. One can only assume that all parties were able to meet in the middle and it sounds like they agreed on a deal that made more sense than the alternative. I don't think I have ever seen a President working towards projects like this before their inauguration. I'm not making any judgements about it, one way or the other at this point. Just an observation.

Sniper.....WTF are you wasting time observing, and waiting for facts to make a decision? Shouldn't that letter at the end of his name be enough for you to decide whether or not your against it or for it? Geez...

 11/30/2016 02:05 PM
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RustyTruck

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Why does it seem the actual terms are hush hush?

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 11/30/2016 02:34 PM
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skatensurf

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^Apparently the formal announcement with more details will be tomorrow when Trump and Pence are at the actual factory. This local article had some good info http://www.indystar.com/story/...announcement/94659386/
 11/30/2016 04:33 PM
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johnnyboy

Posts: 25071
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Socialism is always worked out in secret.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 11/30/2016 06:08 PM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33298
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Looks like $700,000 in tax payer money and threats to cut government contracts to the parent company United Technologies.

I sort of like the threats part, not sure how libertarian capitalists feel about that part. None of it is conservative.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 11/30/2016 07:41 PM
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cheaterfiveo

Posts: 5092
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What did sotero do? Nothing
 11/30/2016 07:45 PM
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follydude

Posts: 9711
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The World Trade Organization is getting up into Boeing's federal, state & local subsidies: AirBus and Embraer complained about unfair business climates and subsidies upset the playing field.




 12/01/2016 08:21 AM
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Pagerow

Posts: 5609
Joined Forum: 12/22/2005

While Carrier's factories carried major symbolic weight for the president-elect, negotiating on a case-by-case basis with each company that threatens to outsource jobs would require a lot of time and effort - especially if each company expects Trump to sweeten the deal.

Bernie Sanders: Carrier just showed corporations how to beat Donald Trump

President-elect Donald Trump will reportedly announce a deal with United Technologies, the corporation that owns Carrier, that keeps less than 1,000 of the 2100 jobs in America that were previously scheduled to be transferred to Mexico. Let's be clear: It is not good enough to save some of these jobs. Trump made a promise that he would save all of these jobs, and we cannot rest until an ironclad contract is signed to ensure that all of these workers are able to continue working in Indiana without having their pay or benefits slashed.

-------------------------
GOP:

Gaslight
Obstruct
Project
 12/01/2016 08:23 AM
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Pagerow

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"Let's be clear. United Technologies is not going broke. Last year, it made a profit of $7.6 billion and received more than $6 billion in defense contracts. It has also received more than $50 million from the Export-Import Bank and very generous tax breaks. In 2014, United Technologies gave its former chief executive Louis Chenevert a golden parachute worth more than $172 million. Last year, the company's five highest-paid executives made more than $50 million. The firm also spent $12 billion to inflate its stock price instead of using that money to invest in new plants and workers.

"Does that sound like a company that deserves more corporate welfare from our government? Trump's Band-Aid solution is only making the problem of wealth inequality in America even worse.

I said I would work with Trump if he was serious about the promises he made to members of the working class. But after running a campaign pledging to be tough on corporate America, Trump has hypocritically decided to do the exact opposite. He wants to treat corporate irresponsibility with kid gloves. The problem with our rigged economy is not that our policies have been too tough on corporations; it's that we haven't been tough enough."

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GOP:

Gaslight
Obstruct
Project
FORUMS : National Enquirer (FORMERLY NSR) : Carrier

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