That's what capitalism is about. All businesses do that. Not a very libertarian viewpoint.  If I really, really need to surf, should shapers lower their profit margins for me?

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I :heart; Q

Should our healthcare be part of the Capitalist part of America?

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GOP:

Gaslight
Obstruct
Project

Sorry for the unintended pun, but that's a case of death by 1000 cuts.

No, it can't be justified solely by higher administrative costs. Every single aspect associated with your visit contributes to its total cost.

Nobody works for free. Every human who touches the process is going to get some money out of it somehow, and the more people and factors involved, more will be taken and more of it will be obscured in that lump sum.

That starts to make the case for Rusty's goal of a full NHS, but government bureaucrats tend to be less motivated, less productive, and harder to fire than private-industry counterparts. They're also very well versed in creating regulations to justify and expand their empires. SpaceX vs. NASA and the old-school rocket providers make for a good example.

More and more good doctors locally are starting to refuse not only Medicaid and Medicare patients, but rejecting insurance entirely and only dealing with self-pays. They can often provide better care, cheaper care, and make more money themselves by doing so.

In my opinion, yes.

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I :heart; Q

Without the capitalistic part of "big pharma" the miracle drugs that have been produced would not be. With the heavy regulation from FDA its very difficult and very expensive to get a drug from an idea to reality.

However, I continue to think that we need to include "Healthcare" as a Constitutional right.

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So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.

broken patent system
maybe this sort of thing ought not deserve the same protection


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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Shapers have lowered their profit margins for you. They work on a what, 30% markup?

P.S. Not surfing won't kill you.



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I was right.

Not the same thing really. If you had a shaper with a monopoly on a product off patent that he helped cause and then threw money at politicians to keep it that way while jacking up the prices 1000% ... You would at least be ball park, except for the whole lives at stake thing.

 

Letting the free market determine price would and will work.... But not when there is corruption and collusion. It requires a fair and level playing field.

 

 

Long and interesting article (and a few reader comments) here:
https://mises.org/blog/how-gov...ealthcare-so-expensive

I've finished a speed-read of about 2/3 of the article so far.

A lot of it seems based on:
1) supply & demand
2) supply & demand
3) supply & demand
4) what suppliers perceive buyers will pay
5) what buyers are actually paying when insurance contributes a chunk
6) what insurers are paying when government-subsidized insurance leads the way
7) supply & demand
8) what happens when government lets doctors and med schools limit the supply

For fun, google "certificate of need new hospital"
http://www.modernhealthcare.co...123/magazine/301239964
https://www2.ncdhhs.gov/DHSR/coneed/index.html
http://ahca.myflorida.com/MCHQ/CON_FA/

e.g.,


Back when my mom was battling cancer, I remember reading about a lawsuit in Georgia by one oncology service provider to prevent a nearby competitor from buying a new (and better) radiation machine, trying to leverage their CON laws. Disgusting.


Related to earlier part of thread: That 2.3% medical device tax increased the cost of a $500K MRI machine by about $11K. And we know that cost is not simply absorbed by its manufacturer...

DNA analysis providers like 23andMe used to provide a full map (at very affordable prices) about whatever they could decode regarding your genome when you sent them a sample.

Now they are limited to just providing ancestry information, like "Your ancestors lived in Scotland." A total waste of capability.


Edited: 08/24/2016 at 01:04 PM by RegularJoe

What happened to 23andMe is a tragedy. APOE mutations are the greatest single factor when determining Alzheimer's, dementia, and heart disease risk and they used to show your result. (Still do in Canada)

 

Your risk and how you should eat to mitigate that risk could save so many people from health problems and the insurance industry billions... But the FDA *cough* cracked down on them. Wonder why....

 

This is the reason why nutrition recommendations give mixed results, because genetics aren't taken into consideration in older studies. Some people are better with a high healthy fat, low carb diet and others are better with high healthy carb and low fat.

 

 

 

We need to take off the campaign buttons to talk about a subject as important as this.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".

As long as corruption is part of the discussion...

What is the chance that any of the FDA's stonewalling is related to the fact this pig of a CEO has a daddy in the US Senate?

Now that is a great idea. What do you think would happen to research spending if a drug company could not get the money invested back? You might look to what happened in Venezuela for a clue.

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I :heart; Q

Cons always go off into the weeds on stuff like this with comments like those.
Question monopolistic practices makes one a commie. There is plenty of room to regulate and still maintain a free market that support innovation.


But I was wrong, this isn't even a patent thing, neither the drug nor the delivery mechanism are patented.

The real reason the EpiPen and other off-patents are so expensive

Here's how we fix the problem

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

If I read them right... the delivery mechanism (injector) WAS patented, but the patent has expired, and the problem is that potential competitors have not been able to get their own injectors or other delivery mechanisms approved?

Other angle on R&D aspect of the EpiPen: The product had long been developed, approved, and profitable.

The company responsible for the price hikes (Mylan) simply acquired the patent (and producer?) in 2007 and started raising the prices there.

At the end of it all...
TextMylan CEO Blames Obamacare for EpiPen Sticker Shock

Yup, FDA holding up competition to the Epipen. You progs should exalt.

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I :heart; Q

Did you read the link?
"She said that employers' increased use of high-deductible plans, one of the side-effects of the law, has resulted in patients paying more out of pocket for the drug, and that's "where you're seeing a lot of noise around EpiPen."

LOL, because the cost is more visible to some consumers now, it's Obamacare's fault!

FYI, I've recently selected one of those "high deductible" CDH Plans, because it actually costs me far less out of pocket (very low premiums and a hefty employer contribution to an HSA).
A gamble on my part, we'll see how it works out.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Most of the plans are high-deductible now, compared to a few years ago.

Those with low deductibles are getting sticker shock from their premiums,
while those with high deductibles get sticker shock buying EpiPen.

Either way, the price of EpiPen has soared, and Mylan executive salaries along with it.

We had some precautionary EpiPens for my daughter back before 2007. Once those expired and we got a scrip to renew, insurers balked and wanted lots more info from the doc before filling. Thankfully, we do not appear to need them.

The CEO blaming Obamacare was pretty rich though, given that her dad (former WV governor and now senator) is a Democrat.

She's flailing to direct blame anywhere but herself, after offshoring company HQ to The Netherlands, collecting $18M more in salary, and planning to hike the price of EpiPens even further to profit more in the absence of competition. (No doubt they needed more of that income to pay the lobbyists who have helped keep competitors off the market.

Her latest statement:

But true again to miker's original point: Corruption abounds, while greed and hypocrisy clearly have taken root in altruistic Democrat CEO's as well.

Both major parties have been insanely protective of many diverse industries, and Big Pharma just happens to be one of those with overlap support in both.

This is a job for Liz.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".