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Topic Title: Heaven or Hell
Topic Summary: Something to think about......
Created On: 01/26/2016 07:02 PM
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 01/26/2016 07:02 PM
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sonfollowerssurf

Posts: 380
Joined Forum: 09/05/2012

This is a general question, may have been presented to you all before. Many of you have a vision of imaginery afterlife. To me it is a mockery.... My Lord and Savior has a heart for ALL of you. HE wants you all to know HIM and accept HIM as your SAVIOR. Umm puts good fact scripture out there and most of you all turn it into a bashing fest. Trust me I know and have been contacted by many as they sit on the sidelines and learn through this chaos. They ask questions and truly want to know and have JESUS as their SAVIOR. I could go on and on, but I will not . This is the million $ question? Because this is how it ends. Why? Because scriptures says and scripture is TRUTH.

$$$$$ If you were to die in your next breath, where would you spend eternity? HEAVEN or HELL it is your choice and there are the only 2 answers...

 

WAYNE



Edited: 01/26/2016 at 08:31 PM by sonfollowerssurf
 01/26/2016 07:16 PM
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RegularJoe

Posts: 3679
Joined Forum: 11/20/2011

I've got to say I'm not a fan of trying to entice people to Christianity with the threat of Hell.

Quite obviously, many people are more interested in choosing Hell than they are in emulating certain Christians, if that's what it will turn them into.

Most people are more concerned about today and tomorrow than about eternity.

Having the daily peace of a relationship with Jesus Christ in your life today is what it's all about.

Live that in your daily life, and you will shine like a city on a hill.

Experience that, and eternity will take care of itself.
 01/26/2016 07:23 PM
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Cole

Posts: 68180
Joined Forum: 07/22/2003

I am happy with me.

I there be God and he/she is mad at me for not following his/her rule book, so be it.

-------------------------
I was right.
 01/26/2016 08:20 PM
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WG

Posts: 37257
Joined Forum: 03/10/2005

I have no idea
what I will experience
when I die. If anything
And neither do you.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Edited: 01/27/2016 at 06:07 AM by WG
 01/26/2016 08:27 PM
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theglide

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Experience that, and eternity will take care of itself.


Words of wisdom right there.
 01/26/2016 08:39 PM
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sonfollowerssurf

Posts: 380
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Originally posted by: RegularJoe I've got to say I'm not a fan of trying to entice people to Christianity with the threat of Hell. Quite obviously, many people are more interested in choosing Hell than they are in emulating certain Christians, if that's what it will turn them into. Most people are more concerned about today and tomorrow than about eternity. Having the daily peace of a relationship with Jesus Christ in your life today is what it's all about. Live that in your daily life, and you will shine like a city on a hill. Experience that, and eternity will take care of itself.

Unfortunateely this is the easy route. The reality is HELL is real and people need to be confronted with that truth. Can you please explain your explanation with scripture. It seems kind of wishy washy, like some sort of don't worry be happy type. Almost like we have the power?

 01/26/2016 09:21 PM
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RegularJoe

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I most definitely believe that an eternity with God is one option, and eternity without him is the other.

As a follower of Jesus Christ, I have chosen the former. But I did not do so out of fear; I did so out of love -- the kind that grows as a relationship matures, and God's feedback in life's daily events provides sufficient rationale (I won't call it "evidence") to maintain a faith that is solid and growing, built on trust that God is always there for me, and that His words in the Bible are true whether my human mind interprets them correctly or not.

Answered prayers were the fuel that built that relationship for me.

We have ideas of what Heaven and Hell are like, but the words to describe them are limited, as are our brains' ability to fathom their extent. (CS Lewis provides a really enjoyable journey of imagination in The Great Divorce.)

As such, whether I'm consumed by worms after death, or travel the eternal path up or down, there's nothing I can do about it after that last breath, as we understand it.

Therefore, because of what He does for me in this life, I choose Jesus without a care for what it means in the next life.

When I was seeking, I was blessed to have people in my life who lived their faith without the need for any words. I wanted what they had. When I asked, I got the answer without the Heaven or Hell lecture most kids get before toddler Sunday School.

Those answers would have meant nothing had there been no evidence of the fruits in their daily life.

The only thing wishy-washy is me, as an imperfect human, acknowledging that my understanding may not perfect. But I don't know any human, from the Pope on down, whose is.
 01/26/2016 10:45 PM
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ummm

Posts: 550
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RJ - Jesus Christ talked frequently and specifically about hell. He said it is the place prepared for the devil and his angels, and in hell, the worm never dies and the fire is never, ever quenched. The CS Lewis hell tickles our itching ears, but it is all his imagination with nary a tasty tidbit of truth.

This whole modern concept of being besties with Jesus isn't scriptural at all and was made up by post-modern new evangelicals who didn't want to deal with sin. Sin...the very reason Jesus came to earth. He loves us deeply and paid the price for our sin on the cross. If we believe that fact in our hearts, and turn away from our sin via repentance, to him and his word, then we are saved. If we don't, we are choosing to follow the way of satan and his crew and we follow them to the place prepared for them by God. 

As for the pope...he doesn't believe the Bible and I have about 20 quotes from him on my phone proving it. He doesn't have to believe it if he doesn't want to, but he should admit what he knows...he is a pagan babylonian sun worshipper leading billions to hell on purpose. That will be revealed in due time. Meanwhile...run. 

As for the reality of hell and the wrath of God, below is a link spelling it out for you all. If you don't believe it, like Tim Keller and a bunch of other pastors who think they are smarter than say, the apostle Paul, who said: " It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God," and "knowing therefore the TERROR of the Lord, we persuade men." You can have your cheesy prosperity "Jesus is my bff" pastor, but I will stick with Paul and the eternal word of the living God. Choose this day...who are you going to serve?

http://followingjesuschrist3.com/2014/12/28/hell-and-the-wrath-of-god-almighty-what-do-the-scriptures-say/

 

 

 

 01/26/2016 10:47 PM
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RegularJoe

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BTW, we don't have to get into a Scripture-quoting contest; that would not be productive or fun.

Clearly the New Testament describes Heaven and Hell, adding much to what the OT understanding of an afterlife meant. No argument there.

But read the NT stories of people who converted (and where it is mentioned, also baptized).

In Acts 9, Saul of Tarsus encountered Jesus, who merely asked why Saul was persecuting him, then gave him some instructions regarding future events, which came true. Saul became Paul, regained his sight, and went on to spread the Good News and pen half the New Testament.

In Acts 8, Simon the Sorcerer and several others converted as a result of Philip preaching the Good News.

Later in Acts 8, Philip proclaims the Good News to an Ethiopian eunuch, and baptizes him as well.

Luke 24 describes Jesus' post-crucifixion appearance to Cleopas and a companion on the road to Emmaus. After revealing himself to them, they returned at once to Jerusalem to proclaim Jesus had risen.

In Acts 2, at Pentecost, Peter leads about 3000 to baptism by preaching the Good News.

In John 6, when Jesus feeds 5000 people with a few fish and loaves, I can only imagine several of them became believers based on the miracle. [14] "14 After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, "Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.""

I'm struggling to find scriptural examples of where people came to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior in response to a brute-force Heaven or Hell proposal. Hearts were warmed, afflictions were healed, eyes were opened, and needs were met.

Once on that road, they had the opportunity to leave the baby food behind, work out the details of their faith with fear and trembling, mature their relationship, give reason for the faith that lay within them, and do their part in loving their neighbor and following the Great Commission.

The threat of Hell does not open many listeners' ears to hearing the Good News half of God's offer to us. It usually comes across as a controlling effort to coerce good behavior and follow the letter of a law rather than building a relationship with our Creator who sacrificed everything for us.

With so much positive, why start with and focus on the negative?

The end goal is not very appealing if the journey there doesn't offer something. For me, it's the daily bread and so much more.
 01/26/2016 10:52 PM
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ummm

Posts: 550
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Not everyone is converted by hearing about hell...but everyone is converted by facing their sin and realizing what they deserve due to their rebellion against God. It truly is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of God, and Revelation 19 proves it. Ignore it at your own peril my man.

Fear won't save you but it might get you on the path of seeking the true God and recognizing exactly how sinful we are and that God got straight up jacked in trying to save us from hell. Jesus wouldn't have died such a violent and horrible death for us if hell wasn't real. He would have just come down on a unicorn and blown bubbles on everyone while offering them a wide variety of snacks. 

We are all so selfish! Me me God! Give me stuff! Bless me!! I want to fall on the floor and convulse like a fool since that other guy is doing it!! Me me!! Why doesn't this chick dig my game?? Where is my raise?? If you love me I will get a raise and a car so peeps don't think I'm a loser and maybe pastorwill mention me at church so I will get the respect I deserve!! Blah blah. We need to recognize what a great and merciful God we have in saving us from our sin and parking us on such a gorgeous planet with beautiful potential wives and all manner of blue and green tropical waters...

 01/26/2016 11:01 PM
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RegularJoe

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ummm, i'm not using the Pope or CS Lewis to support my faith, just to add perspective.

Nobody has definitive answers. Anyone who claims to may as well start his own cult.

There are plenty of examples where God uses the example of a father/child relationship to help us understand.

Jesus breaks bread with his closest friends. They were human, with real relationships and real emotions.

There are some good words in John 15:
9 "As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.

10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.

12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit - fruit that will last - and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

17 This is my command: Love each other.


It saddens me to see people heap the OT on top of the NT, rather than vice-versa. It saddens me to see people blind to the joy that our Savior wants us to have.

I'm sorry if the relationship is more burdensome than joyful for you, but I can't let you take that from me.

Sure, it comes with responsibilities and commitments, but Jesus tells us in Matthew 11, "my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

Please don't make it any harder for people than it really has to be.
 01/27/2016 03:59 AM
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bob3000

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Joe gets it.

-------------------------
Water dissolving...and water removing
There is water at the bottom of the ocean
 01/27/2016 04:08 AM
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jdbman

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There is no "hell".

-------------------------
So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.
 01/27/2016 05:59 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33300
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Souls just get recycled. Neither created nor destroyed. Life goes on; every day another baby's born.


-------------------------
Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 01/27/2016 06:00 AM
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worksuxgetsponsered

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-------------------------
Specializing in sarcasm and condescending rhetoric since 1971.
 01/27/2016 06:09 AM
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stokedpanda

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Originally posted by: sonfollowerssurf

 

$$$$$ If you were to die in your next breath, where would you spend eternity? HEAVEN or HELL it is your choice and there are the only 2 answers...

 

 WAYNE

 

Wayne where were you before you were born? Nowhere, and that is where everyone goes when they die....Do all animals, plants, living organisms end up in heave or hell?

I think it would be like unplugging a lamp....nothingness, chill out and enjoy the ride......or plan for the RAPTURE or whatever



-------------------------
I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life
 01/27/2016 06:54 AM
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ummm

Posts: 550
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RJ - the relationship isn't a burden at all. It is a great joy. That is why I don't spend my days stuck in some office but hit the streets caring for his chidren and peaching the pure gospel message. The burden come only if we reject him as he truly is...and follow a make believe happy Jesus or kung foo Jesus, with a false gospel. Galatians 1 warns against it, and I suggest heeding those warnings. According to Jesus and Paul, our best life isn't here on this earth...it is later, in heaven. I wrote about that too:

http://followingjesuschrist3.com/2014/12/18/heaven-your-best-life-later-part-2/

My only encouragement to you is that you ignore every single preacher and teacher you know...and study the New Testament in full, to make sure you, as Paul says, have taken hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of you and aren't battered to and fro by every wind of doctrine. Have a great relationship with Jesus Christ...just make sure it is the right Jesus Christ from the word, and not one made up by men which tickles our itching ears.

 

 01/27/2016 07:12 AM
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scombrid

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Originally posted by: sonfollowerssurf

 

$$$$$ If you were to die in your next breath, where would you spend eternity? HEAVEN or HELL it is your choice and there are the only 2 answers...

 

 

 

WAYNE

 

I grew up Southern Baptist. I went to a weekend long youth revival when I was 15. The formula for the event was music and fun and bonding leading to the hell sales pitch and the sobbing alter call. Lots of feel good "Our God is an Awesome God" on refrain began the event. But as the days wore on the message became dire. Images of kids committing suicide and hung up on drugs played on the big screen behind the evangelist while he preached about hell without salvation. Teens sobbed their way to the alter call to be led of to back rooms for special counseling to dedicate their soul to Jesus.

I stay in my seat feeling no need to be pressured into such an action given that I was pretty happy with my life and trusted my parents' teaching.

Two adult ministers from local churches took the empty seats flanking me, effectively cornering me. They asked me that very question that you asked.

I responded as I had been taught:  "It is entirely up to God, whatever is his will is mine".

They did not like that answer and berated me for some time including grasping my shoulders imploring me to go to the alter call.

I decided then that something that required so much emotional appeal and peer pressure probably should not be trusted. The adults' behavior towards a teenager was borderline predatory.

Their sales tactic seems to work on people that are troubled though.

 



-------------------------
...



Edited: 01/27/2016 at 07:40 AM by scombrid
 01/27/2016 07:12 AM
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Wookie

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My only encouragement to you is that you ignore every single preacher and teacher you know...

Except, of course, ummm and sfs, our NSR "teachers".



-------------------------

Wiki wiki

 01/27/2016 07:24 AM
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RustyTruck

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I loved youth group, church girls were rough and ready.

-------------------------
Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
FORUMS : National Enquirer (FORMERLY NSR) : Heaven or Hell

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