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Topic Title: DO Not repair, or modify, your own car, , , ,
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Created On: 04/22/2015 07:10 AM
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 04/22/2015 07:10 AM
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dingpatch

Posts: 19032
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Not much "response" in the NPNR forum, so I brought it here too. For the learning impaired: Detroit is #1, you are #2, everybody else is "third party". If they have their way, you would be "breaking the law" if you repair your own brakes. And, , , , I can image that "Joe's Auto Repair" would have to PAY to be "Certified", etc. . . . .

Ready for this, , , ,? Detroit is looking into the possibility of using Copyright law and DRM to stop you, and "third parties", from repairing, or modifying, your car!!!!!!!!

Linky, , , ,

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 04/22/2015 08:58 AM
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Bamboo

Posts: 7987
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Not really surprised to read this, seems to have been on the horizon ever since computers were integrated into the control and drive systems of automobiles.  Kind of heavy handed, though.

 

Personally, if I could weld the hood closed and never have to deal with maintenance again I would be happy.  Not that interested in fixing up any of the new cars.



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 04/22/2015 09:36 AM
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dingpatch

Posts: 19032
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Oh, and, , , , I watched a spot on ABC News last night about the recent mass street racing bust in California. It seems that the legislative dolts out there are talking about legislation that would require certain/such "street mods" be forcefully removed from vehicles.

What is this to mean? So, I get stopped, and the cop finds that my rims and tires are "different" from that which was on the vehicle when Detroit/Japan shipped it? So, I get a ticket and my car is impounded?

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Dora Hates You
 04/22/2015 10:04 AM
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Fish Killer

Posts: 71439
Joined Forum: 10/09/2005

Detroit...run by democraps!

Keep voting your liberties and rights away!

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 04/22/2015 10:15 AM
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Wookie

Posts: 2018
Joined Forum: 01/12/2015

I would say people are modding their cars and bikes more than ever.

Not ground up like the old days (forged cranks, cams, followers, etc) but more doing it.



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 04/22/2015 10:52 AM
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WG

Posts: 37257
Joined Forum: 03/10/2005

Originally posted by: Fish Killer

Detroit...run by democraps!



Keep voting your liberties and rights away!


That was pretty damn stupid and out of context, but you already know that

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 04/22/2015 11:05 AM
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scombrid

Posts: 18021
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Originally posted by: Fish Killer Detroit...run by democraps! Keep voting your liberties and rights away!

Lessee

...automakers have expressed concern that allowing outsiders to access electronic control units that run critical vehicle functions like steering, throttle inputs and breaking "leads to..." according to the Alliance of Global Automakers."

Alliance of Global Automakers = Detriot?  Okay.

 



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 04/22/2015 11:08 AM
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scombrid

Posts: 18021
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Originally posted by: WG That was pretty damn stupid and out of context, but you already know that

Sadly he doesn't know. He probably really thinks that this is "Detroit Dumbocrats" even when it is a bunch of different private companies essentially asking for the same thing.



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 04/22/2015 11:21 AM
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scombrid

Posts: 18021
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Originally posted by: dingpatch So, I get stopped, and the cop finds that my rims and tires are "different" from that which was on the vehicle when Detroit/Japan shipped it? So, I get a ticket and my car is impounded?

Well, in the context of your opening post I don't think that tires and rims can be covered by a DMCA claim under any circumstance.

I do think that the automakers' argument for safety is specious though.

They say:

Imagine an amateur that makes a coding mistake that causes brakes to fail

That's a risk for physical alterations. Always has been. So this argument fails.

Thing is, DMCA should mean that I cannot copy their code and profit from its reproduction. It should not mean that I cannot alter the code which I possess for my own amusement or utility.

Then the automakers say

 

Modifications could render cars non-compliant with environmental laws that regulat emissions

Already illegal assholes as summarized by the autoblog author.

I think autoblog hit the nail on the head. Automakers just want to hog the after-market share. They can't with physical alterations but if they can get DMCA interpreted to their liking then they can block out a lot of third parties.

Welcome to Apple Motors.

 



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 04/22/2015 11:27 AM
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jdbman

Posts: 12159
Joined Forum: 07/28/2003

Howard threw out a good discussion and in typical fuck knut fashion he derailed the thread into his usual bs. Then most pile on the old fuck knut. For me , the lesson learned is that you cannot have the same discourse with a psycho that you can with a normal human being.

So my take on the topic is: Yep its a global issue. I stopped working on my own car when they got way to complicated. ( more complicated than say a 71 VW or a 74 Chevy pick up )

1984 by George Orwell is so damn prophetic in many ways.

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 04/22/2015 11:47 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33300
Joined Forum: 08/02/2004

You'll have to Jailbreak your car?

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 04/22/2015 11:55 AM
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jdbman

Posts: 12159
Joined Forum: 07/28/2003

UPDATE 1-Peugeot, IBM working to connect cars to shops and servicing


9:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time Apr 22, 2015
* Passenger and back-end Internet services planned
* Will go beyond maps and info, to link up to smart grids
* IBM says one of its largest partnerships with auto sector

(adds details, background, comments from IBM executive)
By Eric Auchard
FRANKFURT, April 22 (Reuters) - PSA Peugeot Citroen
and IBM are working together to hook cars up
to the Internet, going beyond mapping and infotainment to link
vehicles up to shops, service networks and urban transport
grids, the companies said on Wednesday.
Financial terms of the new, seven-year partnership were not
disclosed. The agreement to develop new types of valued-added
services for vehicles builds on an initial partnership between
the automaker and technology consultant announced a year ago.
The companies said in a joint statement they planned to
develop services for drivers and passengers, as well as back-end
applications that could perform preventive car maintenance and
traffic management functions.
The partnership looks beyond existing driver navigation,
roadside assistance and infotainment offerings popularised by
tech firms such as Google and Apple , and map
services from Nokia's K1V.HE> HERE unit and TomTom .
Software analytics from the car and tapping into smart grids
of sensors on traffic signs and streetlights could help manage
congestion and cut down on pollution, as well as feeding back to
service networks for preventive car maintenance programmes.
It could also link vehicles to retailers, an IBM executive
said.
Axel Rogaichus, head of IBM's automotive consulting practice
in Europe, told Reuters it was one of the largest partnerships
the computer services supplier had agreed so far in the
automotive industry.
IBM reached a separate partnership agreement in 2013 with
Germany's Continental AG , a top global auto parts
supplier, to build an "electronic horizon" platform that enables
cars to anticipate upcoming obstructions, for example.
IBM and PSA, Europe's second largest carmaker, said they had
agreed to share responsibilities for developing, selling and
marketing, and implementing connected services with new and
existing clients of the firms.
The companies said they had established a centre to work
together in Paris to develop the new range of services.
The latest deal focuses on connecting passenger vehicles
into a variety of network-connected platforms that IBM is
developing with other auto industry partners.
But Rogaichus stopped short of saying whether Peugeot might
consider working with other automakers to advance urban
smartgrids and other remote, connected-car functions.

(Editing by Maria Sheahan and Alison Williams)
((eric.auchard@thomsonreuters.com; +49 69 7565 1235; Reuters
Messaging: eric.auchard.thomsonreuters.com@reuters.net))



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So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.
 04/23/2015 01:40 PM
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Pagerow

Posts: 5609
Joined Forum: 12/22/2005

It's called the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). It's been around since 2000 and started as anti-Internet piracy legislation. But automakers want to use it to try and make working on your own car illegal. Yes, illegal. The general premise is that unlike cars of the past, today's vehicles are so advanced and use such a large amount of software and coding in their general makeup, altering said code could be dangerous and possibly even malicious. https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/...illegal-160000229.html

My question: How would anyone know that the code has been changed, unless they did an investigation of the code itself? I guess it could send a report back to the Mfr that the code isn't responding the same, (or a LACK of a programmed report would do the same thing...)


DMCA does give a little bit of leeway, though. While the act could hypothetically lock customers out of key safety features, it would still allow owners the ability to repair other areas of the vehicle's onboard computer as they see fit. It's a slim compromise, but one that may be more closely based in reality.


As it currently sits, there are 13 (!) large automakers on the list supporting the DMCA. Want to know who they are? Of course you do:

General Motors Company
BMW Group
FCA US LLC
Ford Motor Company
Jaguar Land Rover
Mazda
Mercedes-Benz USA
Mitsubishi Motors
Porsche
Toyota
Volkswagen Group of America
Volvo Cars North America

Ironically, one of the brands that relies most on technology in its vehicles - Tesla Motors - in not in support of DMCA. While other American companies like GM, Ford and Chrysler all agree that working on your own vehicle should be punishable by law.

Funny how three brands that pride themselves on American ingenuity don't want customers to work on their cars.


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 04/23/2015 06:16 PM
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RegularJoe

Posts: 3679
Joined Forum: 11/20/2011

When it comes to "working on their own cars" all I got from this was that they were trying to prevent people from modifying their software.

How many people are qualified to work on their own cars at that level?

Sure, there are lots of enthusiasts who buy chips and tuners, but the people who make the chips and tuning devices are the ones who have really reverse-engineered the auto mfgrs' code. Those are the people they'll be shutting down, but the enthusiasts will suffer.

But you know the auto mfgrs are all lawyered up. They do have a legitimate liability concern over someone getting hurt or killed as a result of modified software. Not because they caused it, but because they didn't do enough to prevent it. All of which does tie into their profit motive and picture.

They also want the protections to keep their intellectual property from getting reverse-engineered and used for someone else's profit elsewhere. By staking more aggressive claims to their IP, they build support for their case that they took protections to keep any theft from happening.

But lastly, yeah, if they lock out 3rd parties, they get their monopoly and the profit that goes with it.

So they have a moderately altruistic facade wrapped around a layer of greedy bullshit.

Sony pulled similar shiite when they disabled the PS3 from running alternate operating systems. Lots of people found out you could run Linux on it, cluster a boatload of them together, and have an insane discount supercomputer. But no more. Apple is also notorious for limiting how people use their devices.

My take is that whenever you buy something (anything), you OWN it, and as owner, are entitled to use it and modify as you wish and are able, as long as you don't violate basic patent laws for profit.

 04/23/2015 07:08 PM
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3rdworldlover

Posts: 22496
Joined Forum: 07/25/2003

Are we really entitled to 'freedom' when using public roadways?
It's clear there's no shortage of idiots that can't handle it, with tens of thousands dying yearly.
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