Nothing killed my spirit, it was made alive in Christ.  It is true that your spirit is alive in that that is who you really are.  You are a spirit that has a soul that lives in a body.  The question is where will you go once that body wears out and dies? In Christ I'm not just saved from the destruction of hell and death, but I'm made alive now with eternal life.  Not just eternal in the sense of life forever, but an eternal quality of life.  Jesus said He came to give life and life MORE abundantly. The bible calls it "zoe" life which is the fullness of life and the life that God Himself enjoys.  He puts His own life in you!  

It's like my trip to PR (which was my first surf trip).  The timing was right and we scored waves from Gonzalo.  These were the most insane waves I've ever seen let alone ridden.  All I knew was FL beachbreak and I loved it.  However experiencing PR for that swell gave me a taste of a world-class wave.  That's probably a bad analogy but what I'm saying is sure your spirit is alive, but in Christ is becomes alive with His life.  There's no comparison between the two.  

When you're ready just get alone somewhere and put your hand on your heart and ask Jesus to come in and show you how much He loves you.  Ask Him to fill you with His life and the Holy Spirit.  I have to just throw this out just because, but if you find yourself shaken in the middle of the night and you perceive unusual activity in the atmosphere so to speak, that would be a good time to do that.

-------------------------

Jesus invented surfing...
Matthew 14:22-33

www.facebook.com/churchonthebeach

-------------------------
"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

If my misinformation is scripture after scripture after scripture, including quotes from Jesus and the Apostles, versus a few cherry picked verses that say, as Paul says, what our itching ears want to hear - I'll take the 140 + misinformation verses. As for Sozo - it is without doubt, New Age Luciferian practice repackaged for gullible, hurting Christians. If it's not clearly biblical (did Paul or the Apostles ever mention anything like it? No  but very similar practices without the christisn terminology are all over occult literature). Tread carefully my brothers lest the light in you becomes darkness. Do nothing that is not clearly enumerated in the word. The enemy is prowling looking to pull away those who don't know or love the truth - but instead love the simple spiritual sounding teachings of charismatic deceiving men. 

Lb - I don't need the fear of hell to be good. All of us are good...and bad... but we all hold deep anger and bitterness and jealousy in our hearts. All of us. Jesus goes below the surface behavior and forgives us for the deep sins of the heart. The Pharasees looked great on the outside by acting religious and doing good deeds. Yet Jesus called them whitewashed tombs because inside they were full of pride, greed and anger. Jesus came to wash away that sin should we choose to accept him. Or we can follow the ways of the world and follow the prince of the air who hated God to the place God made for him. It's a place where Jesus says the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched. 

God has graciously given us the freedom to believe it....or not. 

Edited: 10/29/2014 at 05:30 PM by ummm

Fortunately there is NO fence sitting in JESUS. There are either right or wrongs. It is ALL about JESUS and SALVATION! I tried this here before. It did not work or did it. Only GOD knows. Instead of hiding behind keyboards maybe we can meet at our building with the Bible and discuss this. It is in Cocoa Beach.Do not like taking sides for I know some of you, but this is not about friends it is about being SAVED. The question is are you truly saved, ummm I know your JOY!

Impacting the coast for JESUS!

Wayne

Thanks my man. Joy and peace is what I have. I love this earth He made - and I'm gonna love the next one even more. 

Thanks for the laugh ... that is some of the funniest shit I have read in a while. Damn, your really do love the sound of your own sanctimonious voice don't ya.



-------------------------
"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

^^^^^Thats exactly what I was waiting for! ^^^^^

-------------------------
The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Fair enough. To each their own.

Enjoy your movie.

-------------------------
I was right.

Wow...that's not close to your normal response. (other than the crap you spew to me).

Why the change?



-------------------------
The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Allllllllrightythen, I will attempt to address Ummms main points the best I can.  I don't claim to have a perfect theology nor do I know anyone who does, however it's soooo important to understand the Gospel.  

To start let me copy and paste one of your quotes:

yet the hyper grace people preach a non-biblical, "sin all you want if you've said a magic prayer"

I hear this one a lot.  Let me say that I will offer a reward for anyone who can produce this mythical creature of a pastor that is saying these things.  I know of a lot of people in the who's who of the charismatic zoo and have never heard such preaching or teaching.  Please tell me who this Pastor Unicorn person is.

When it comes to hyper-grace we haven't even scrached the surface.  I'm so hyper on grace you're going to need some Ritalin and there's no prescription strong enough to stop it.  The orignal greek word used often with grace is "megas" and refers to God giving "more" grace.  Grace is always given in the 'present' moment as in right now.  It's also purely a gift, the wordplay is intentional I'm sure (present/gift).  The magnitude of grace is literally 'mega' and unlimited.  There is unlimited grace and unlimited love in God always, right now, right here.  God doesn't just give love and grace it is the essence of His being.  It is Who He Is.  He doesn't just give love, which is unconditional, but He is Love.  So we're going way beyond hyper into mega grace.  There is nothing you can do or say that will change who He is.  His love is profuse and unrelenting!

Second, it's clear you are grossly misinformed to say that sozo is a new age and occultic concept/word.  It appears over 100 times in your Bible!  The english word "saved" or "salvation" is the greek word "sozo."  The challenge for you and I and every 'murican is that english requires several words/concepts/meanings to equate to a single greek word that the new testament was originally written in.  The old testament written in hebrew becomes even more challenging.  However, I will get you a Strong's concordance for Christmas because I know you truly love the Word, however digging into the original texts will reveal even greater joys and truths for you.  It literally takes several congruent english words to try and grasp the orignal concepts and meanings in greek and hebrew.  This is why 'sozo,' 'zoe,' and 'metanoeo' are so important and yet foreign to you and I.  Fear not, the Lord is awakening a generation to the reality of the Gospel.  We think the "Glad Tidings" is for the unchurched, of which it is, but it's also for you and I.  I've been awakening to Grace and I pray you do too.

One last word study on grace itself.  In the original greek it's the word charis.  Again it takes several congruent english words to even try and grasp it.  I'll have to copy and paste this one:

Original Word: χ?ρις, ιτος, ?
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Short Definition: grace, favor, kindness
Definition: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.

Cognate: 5485 xáris (another feminine noun from xar-, "favor, disposed to, inclined, favorable towards, leaning towards to share benefit") – properly, grace.  5485 (xáris) is preeminently used of the Lord's favor – freely extended to give Himself away to people (because He is "always leaning toward them").

5485 /xáris ("grace") answers directly to the Hebrew (OT) term 2580 /Kaná ("grace, extension-toward"). Both refer to God freely extending Himself (His favor, grace), reaching (inclining) to people because He is disposed to bless (be near) them.

[5485 (xáris) is sometimes rendered "thanks" but the core-idea is "favor, grace" ("extension towards").]

? (χα?ρω), from Homer down, Hebrew ???, grace; i. e. 

1. properly, that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech (Ecclesiastes 10:12; Sir. 21:16 Sir. 37:21; Homer, Odyssey 8, 175

This word appears over 120 times in the new testament.  If you are accusing me of over-emphasizing everything that this word entails you'd be incorrect, it can never be emphasized enough.  Once you are awakened to the unlimited goodness, kindness, sweetness, love, and joy of God how can you not want to rave about it?  See once I realize I'm already fully accepted and loved by God I can live by grace FROM this place of fullness.  Never again do I have to live for God as if I'm trying to live up to something, I'm living from the place of His life and Spirit inside of me.

Can we not agree that the essence of the Gospel is John 3:16?  God so loved that He gave His Son that whosoever believes shall not perish but have everlasting life.  There's no self-effort involved.  There's no changing your behavior to get it.  There's no saying the right words.  Only believe.  The next verse is even more radical.  He didn't come to condemn or judge the world but that the world through Him would be saved.  He's not judging anyone!  Yes He's the supreme Judge and He's already made His ruling... not guilty!  

As Christ, this One Who's always been and will always be, this One Who created the world, was born and became man the angels announced: "peace on earth and goodwill towards men with whom God is well pleased." Pleased there means delight, pleasure, satisfaction, and desire!  God has never been anyone's adversary.  This is before the cross!  After the cross the Lord tells Peter to go the gentiles and not call them unclean for He made them clean.  He tells him this 3 times in a row.  They're already clean, wow!  

The cross was the highest expression of His love and grace, the ultimate act...Self-sacrificing Love!  His blood established once and for all peace between man and Himself.  Ephesians 1: 7 In Him we have redemption (deliverance and salvation) through His blood, the remission (forgiveness) of our offenses (shortcomings and trespasses), in accordance with the riches and the generosity of His gracious favor,

Jesus absolutely finished the work.  His blood was enough.  His grace is sufficient.  There is absolutely nothing else required, period.  Only believe.  Verse 13 goes on to say: 13 In Him you also who have heard the Word of Truth, the glad tidings (Gospel) of your salvation, and have believed in and adhered to and relied on Him, were stamped with the seal of the long-promised Holy Spirit.

I'm believing in Him, not my works.  Are good works good?  Of course!  Is it good to confess my sin and shortcomings?  Of course!  But these things are a gift and response to His grace, not a requirement for it!  He doesn't dole out forgiveness in portions only when you ask for it.  It was already given.  From the vantage point of the cross all sin has been forgiven past, present, and future.  He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world!

The heart of the Gospel might best be defined in Ephesians 2 (from the Amplified):

4 But God—so rich is He in His mercy! Because of and in order to satisfy the great and wonderful and intense love with which He loved us,

5 Even when we were dead (slain) by [our own] shortcomings and trespasses, He made us alive together in fellowship and in union with Christ; [He gave us the very life of Christ Himself, the same new life with which He quickened Him, for] it is by grace (His favor and mercy which you did not deserve) that you are saved ([a]delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation).

6 And He raised us up together with Him and made us sit down together [giving us [b]joint seating with Him] in the heavenly sphere [by virtue of our being] in Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One).

7 He did this that He might clearly demonstrate through the ages to come the immeasurable (limitless, surpassing) riches of His free grace (His unmerited favor) in [His] kindness and goodness of heart toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved ([c]delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;

9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

10 For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship), [d]recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].

He died for us while we were still sinners, reconciled us to Himself, brought us into union with Himself, raised us up with Himself, seated us with Him, and absolutely finished the work.  When He hung on the cross and said it is finished He meant it.  He did it.  It's Jesus plus nothing.  Just accept it.  That's that metanoeo word now (english word repent) which means change your mind.  You literally have to rewire your thinking and believe that you're already included in the work.  Good works simply flow FROM that place as His grace operates in my heart and soul.

The spirit of religion is a very real demonic force that is anti-Christ and obviously against Christ and the Gospel.  The spirit of religion will rape and abuse you and then judge you and make you feel guilty for feeling bad about it.  Don't be deceived, there is no mixing religion with the Gospel of grace.  Would you drink water that was 99.9% pure except for .1% diarrhea?  Nope.  This is what religion does when it tries to mix self-effort, self-will, pulling yourself up by your bootsraps, with the Gospel.  It says yeah it's grace but...  The only thing that comes after a but is do-do.  But you have to do this and do that.  It's duty, or rather doodie.  It's another gospel and it stinks.  This is why Paul abandoned every trace of religious rule-keeping.  There is no more law living, period.  When you allow the Lord to renew your mind and awaken you to grace there is literally an entire paradigm shift.  You see everything different.  You read the bible different.  You see people different. 

I have to take my daughter to school but I will give a part 2 later on interpreting the scriptrues you are quoting through the proper lens of the Gospel.  You have to see it in the light of the Gospel!

 

-------------------------

Jesus invented surfing...
Matthew 14:22-33

www.facebook.com/churchonthebeach

A grand total of 2 people give a crap ..... you and him.

Everybody else just sees .... yada yada yada ..... after the first couple of words. But by all f-ing means carry on with your war of words about who is the most Biblically correct, as that is what is reallllllllly important to those that follow a formal religion ... being "right"

-------------------------
"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

If you would have read my post you'd see that I'm talking about the end of religion and how evil it is.  I'm sorry someone hurt you so deeply that you are carrying such bitterness.  It will destroy you if you don't let it go.  Bitterness springing from unforgiveness is very difficult to let go (if not impossible) unless you see and receive the pure Grace I'm talking about in that post.  Once you see that you are loved unconditionally you can begin to then let it go and show that undeserved mercy to others.

 

-------------------------

Jesus invented surfing...
Matthew 14:22-33

www.facebook.com/churchonthebeach

PART 2 of GRACE:

I could go on and on because this Love of God is an eternal living flame that is so beautiful beyond compare.  I'll try to keep it brief and address some of the scritptures that Ummm references previously.  

Since it's an established fact (not my opinion or interpretation) that we are saved by grace through faith, and that NOT of ourselves, we can then rest in the surety of this New Testament (aka Agreement, Covenent, Will).  God established it with Himself.  You have no part to play in ratifying it, you are simply listed as a beneficiary.  I inherit the promises by faith, simply saying yes and resting in it.  This New Covenant is ratified by the blood of Jesus and begins in John 19, "it is finished."  So I have to read my Bible understanding that this was the climax of the ages and everything prior to this Cosmos-changing event is leading up to it. So let's look at the words of Jesus through the lens of grace.

Ummm you referenced those who will say to Him, "Lord Lord have we not performed miracles in Your Name, cast out demons, etc." and the Lord says "depart I never knew you."  First off you claim these people are doing miracles by the power of the devil.  Jesus was accused of the same thing, the religious sect said He was doing these works by the power of demons and that He had a demon.  No where in this passage or any other does is say miracles are being done by satan.  He says dont' believe people when they say, "look there is the Christ or here He is."  He never says demons are giving people power to perform miracles.  The people in this passage did miracles in His Name.  He's saying to depart because clearly they never received grace through faith.  Their faith was in the works they were doing.  His Name has so much authority and power that even an "unsaved" person can use it to do the impossible.  

Let's look at even more challenging words from Jesus.  Matthew 5 is the famous sermon on the mount.  He then goes on to say if you even lust after someone you've commited adultery with them and if you hate someone it's as if you've murdered them.  He then goes on to say to pluck out your eye and cut off your hand if it causes you to sin.  Every person on this planet should be maimed right now!  He then says, "unless your righteousness is more than that of the Pharisees you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."  He then says, "you must be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect."  How is this possible?  Simple, it's not!  That's right there's no way to keep the law better than the pharisees.  The bible says if you attempt to keep one law you must keep all of them.  There are 613 laws.  There's no way anyone except Jesus could do that.  Being perfect like the Father is even more of an impossiblity (except for Jesus).  What is Jesus doing?  He's leading up to the ratification of the New Covenant, no longer a relationship based on man keeping his end of the bargain and then God keeps His.  No, God fulfilled the Old Covenent with Himself in Christ and created a new one which was infinitely better.  God dwelling IN man and having personal, intimate relationship through simple child-like faith.  Even this faith is a gift from Him!  He's showing the impossiblity of saving yourself.  He did it all for us.

How about the story of the rich young ruler.  He's looking for eternal life and he had kept the law perfectly.  Jesus then gives him a different prescription for salvation from the one found in Matthew 5.  He tells him to go and sell everything that he has!  Why would he give this guy a different path?  Because it was impossible for him.  Jesus is again highlighting the impossiblity of saving yourself through law keeping.  Religion takes all of these texts out of context and says, "well Jesus is telling us to "sell-out" for him and give Him all of our lives.  Is it right to give all of me to Jesus?  Sure!  But he's not saying that in this verse.  He's being specific, to a specific person, who is under the law.  This is Jesus' audience, those under the law.  

Lastly, what then are the commands of God we're supposed to keep?  Is it the 10 commandments?  What about the sabbath?  I need to cut the grass and answer emails on Saturday.  So I'll just throw that one out and make it the 9 commandments.  Ooops wait, let's throw the law of tithing in there, that will round it out to a nice even 10 (I'll saving the tithing subject for a separate thread, that will get even messier I'm sure).  You see what we do though?  We end up slicing and dicing the law to fit our needs.  So do we boil it down to the big two?  Love God with all your heart, soul, strength and love your neighbor as yourself?  Wait for it..... no!  Again, if you try to keep just one of the law you are bound to keep all of them.  So what then?  Romans 10 says "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for EVERYONE who believes!

Jesus said a New Command I give you, "love one another as I have loved you."  Ahhh so amazing!  How did He love us?  Unconditionally!  Gracefully!  Freely!  So only until I receive His grace and unmerited favor and acceptance can I then reciprocate and give that out to others.  That's the command we're to keep and follow.  Be loved by Him and give His love to others!  So beautiful.

Lastly, you love the words of Paul about character, integrity, and right living.  I do too.  Again, I MUST read the bible in the light of the Gospel of grace.  Every epistle of Paul starts with this revelation of grace, righteousness by faith, etc. and then in later chapters goes on to show people what that looks like in practical life.  He is showing us what our true identity looks like.  I don't steal anymore because I'm not a thief, I'm His son.  The greek work is actually enduo which means to "sink into."  He's literally showing us that we are a new creation in Christ and you are clothed with Christ so just enduo/sink into this new identity.  He's not saying you have to do these things to be forgiven or accepted or saved.  He's saying because you've been saved and redeemend this is what it looks like.  It's certinaly not self-effort or a behavior modification program.  That's what we've reduced christianity to in the past and the reason people like LBlarry have such a distaste.  Rightfully so.  It's so much more glorious than that.  You've been redeemed, ALREADY made holy and perfected (Hebrews 10), loved, recreated, adpoted, risen, and seated with Him!  

Perhaps LBlarry is right and you and I are the only ones who care.  That's OK if that's the case.  I will do a part 3 on what we're saved for.  I'd like to address your disdain for the Bethel crew and issue with the movie.  I actually agree with you in that I didn't like the opening scene, however the rest of the movie was amazing!  I will give a recap in part 3.  Blessings...

 

-------------------------

Jesus invented surfing...
Matthew 14:22-33

www.facebook.com/churchonthebeach

GsusSurfs, You're wrong......I'm enjoying it immensely. :-)

-------------------------
The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

I'm interested as well.

It's not very often I hear people really "get it" concerning the grace of God...who we are in him...and who he really is.

Seeing Jesus as all we need...and living fully in him moment by moment (internal), is so different than looking at the Bible as an instruction manual and doing our best to pattern ourselves after Christ (external).

The first is a living relationship with the source of all life and goodness, the second is like a job or occupation.

I always like to say that the best Christian is Christ himself, so why not just let him live his life in you? Who's going to do a better job of being Christ-like than him? Why put so much effort into something that has already been done for you to perfection? In fact, the more effort you put into being Christ-like (vs. letting the endless power of his life be your source of goodness), the harder it will become, and the more failure you will see.

Trying to live for Jesus is like a job in that you're following your boss's instructions and trying to do a good job for him. This is an external relationship with Jesus.

Letting Jesus live his life in and through you is more like a marriage or having a best friend. This is an internal relationship with Jesus.

The external relationship with Jesus is performance based, and lacks the true intimacy that he created us to know.

The internal relationship puts us in the place of fulfilling everything we were ever created for...to be one with him.

You guys are missing the simplicity of this. If you guys are willing to humble yourselves and listen to Gods Word, it will save you from a lot of torturous things that will drag you down in this world. You all need to remember something, this world is temporary. Heaven is forever! Before you go to bed tonight think about this verse......

~Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else,for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.

 

JESUS SAVES!!!!!!

Following Christ isn't a simple formula. There is a necessary tension between grace and obedience that one discovers when, as Paul says, we listen to the "whole counsel" of God via the scriptures rather than the cool new teacher who preaches a sugar-candy Americanized gospel whittled into a nice pithy phrase or two. Following Christ is a life, a calling to be holy in light of what he's done for us - not to prove any points to God or to earn our salvation but because we LOVE Him and are so grateful for his mercies. 

Again, we need to put our Christian books and videos down and read, say 1st and 2nd Peter. Then James, Titus, Jude and Galatians. What do they say life with a Christ is? There .... are your answers. Not with modern men who want to make it simple and easy for our dumbed down culture - but the the holy scriptures. All of them. There and only there are the answers to what our life in Christ is supposed to look like. 

As for all the believers on this site - I love all of you and consider you brothers despite our disagreements and personality differences. I just want the purest truth of Jesus Christ lifted up. I ain't got it....but the everlasting word does. 

Edited: 10/31/2014 at 09:42 PM by ummm

Just sift through the feeble attempts of "brotherhood" and what is actually said is ..... MY interpenetration of MY cherry picked bible verses are the correct ones and you poor but well meaning people don't have it as right as I do.



-------------------------
"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

Edited: 11/01/2014 at 04:21 PM by LBLarry

It's all much simpler, much easier than all of that.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Yep.

1) Don't be an asshole.

2) Care about the world around you.



-------------------------
I was right.