"We've raised temperature one degree. We're headed for two degrees even if we do everything right.

The trouble is, we're not doing everything right, so at the moment we're headed to an increase of four or five degree celsius, eight or nine degrees Fahrenheit this century. If we let this happen, we can't have civilizations like the ones we're used to," he explained. "We just won't be able to grow the grain to support them."

"The damage that we've done already really can't be reversed on any human timescale," he said. But If people start relying on sun and wind, "the only things we're not going to run out of," it could prove to have lasting benefits.

"If we stop burning coal and gas and oil, the planet's forests and oceans still retain some ability to cycle carbon out of the atmosphere," .. "If we did everything right, by the end of this century, we'd be back down to some place around 350 parts per million CO2."

"A lot of damage would've happened in the meantime, but we probably would've staved off real disaster,". "That's the real hope."


Bill McKibben


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Climate Change 2013: The Physical Science Basis

http://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/



-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

I thought all of the doomsday nuts have moved on to a different means for our ultimate destruction. Guess that there are Luddites in all fields of endeavor.

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I :heart; Q

Luddite? LOL.

I hear law pays well as a career for those that can't grasp simple physics.

BTW, you would probably love what most people who really understand how bad this problem is see as a big part of the only real workable solution.

lots of Nuclear power.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

He should know about that, but he's forgotten it all.

I guess that does allow him to talk out of his ass now.

-------------------------

A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

All of the people currently denying climate change and accusing the scientists who are documenting these changes will die before they admit that they are wrong. It will be small comfort that their mistakes will be so undeniable in the decades after their deaths, but they will never believe the reality in their own lifetimes in any real way. They seem to think that the same scientists that are creating these doomsday prophecies will invent some technofix that will spare humanity the consequences of their folly. Maybe God will come down from on high and reduce the sea level, clear the air and make pollution into edible snacks. The real problem is all of the stalling. It keeps going on with a life of its own. One day fifty years from now FOX infotainment will report that a late spring snow storm has completely debunked that whole global warming cabal only to report the very next day that the problem has been ignored so long that a solution is now impossible. Try to act surprised.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

The damage that we've done already really can't be reversed on any human timescale," he said. But If people start relying on sun and wind, "the only things we're not going to run out of," it could prove to have lasting benefits.

"If we stop burning coal and gas and oil, the planet's forests and oceans still retain some ability to cycle carbon out of the atmosphere,"

 

The real problem is all of the stalling...

 

 

Thank God that the real problem is all the stalling and not something like China, India and a lot of other countries ramping up their carbon consumption in order to grow their economies...

 

IF... IF fricken global climate change specialists would only stop stalling and whining about something they can't change like carbon consumption in other countries and focused their efforts on planning how to deal with  a climate change of +1 or 2 or even 5 degrees OR another Iceage, I forget what they say we should fear this month, Then by the time 50 years from now when we have a spring hurricane or a glacier in New York we have a plan to deal with it.

But I guess if they can't figure out if carbon increase will cause an Ice Age or a drought, a flood or just a longer growing season then its easier to bitch about your political opponent than it is to actual plan anything??

You spend 30 years protesting Nuclear power because of the environment and then say that we need a new power source to solve the environmental problems, you kind of lose your audience...

-------------------------

Yep,.I marched against Nuclear power in the 70s.
Nuclear power looked like a pretty bad bargain, with all of those leaky unsafe pressurized water plants in dangerous locations (like Fukishima). Chernobyl. 3 Mile Island.

But that was before we understood how bad the climate change problem is. How disruptive to human culture a temperature rise of the sort predicted if we continue down our current path will be.

We have painted our selves into a corner and will do even more so the more we stall. The Chinese and Indians understand the physics just as well.

Solar and wind will be a big part of the solution, especially for local point source generation, once we solve the storage problem. But I don't think they can be developed fast enough to sustain the rapid economic growth we are so accustomed to, and will not give up.

So we need to try again with better designs.

This article showcases some of the new technologies we might be able to deploy.

Fusion should start coming on line around 2035, but we need to fill the gap.

BTW, crazy denialist boomers like you are not "the audience" That's hopeless, you have already demonstrated an absence of the capacity to learn.

But the next generations of regular joe's aren't so stubborn. They are capable of looking ahead to their future. 400,000 of them showed that in NY this weekend.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Edited: 09/23/2014 at 07:34 AM by WG

Therein lies the point. You guys will always be marching against some false doomsday situation and always have been. It fulfills some kind of need for a certain type of person.

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I :heart; Q

You are at it again, tpapsmear, attacking WG instead of acknowledging the point. "You guys" will always be marching against something so I can tar you all with the same brush and dismiss the climate change science with the same smug confidence that I laugh at doomsday preppers canning pickles for the inevitable nuclear winter. I don't think you are unaware that you are using this rhetorical slight of hand, and by that I mean that you are not lying to yourself, but I suspect that you are trying to lie to us when you push this talking point.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

I posted this a while ago and it explains both sides of the Climate Change debate pretty rationally:
Understanding the Global Warming Debate

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"The government who robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul," - George Bernard Shaw

“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f—k things up.” - Barack Obama

“End of quote. Repeat the line.” - wise words from Joe Biden

I read that the last time you posted.

It's a pretty well written case, but not so scientifically strong.

I searched hard to figure out what Mr. Meyers scientific credential were, but couldn't find them.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Our human/animal nature is our biggest enemy. Think of Easter Island, Rapa Nui, but on a global scale. With any resourse, we use it up until it is gone and then move to the next one, oil, fisheries, etc.. Solar and wind will help a reduced world population survive at a lower sustanibility after the fall and anarchy of the depletion of oil.

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Ah, religion, bigotry dressed up as morality.

What are Bill Mckibben's scientific creditials? An undergraduate degree in journalism, from Harvard?

-------------------------
"The government who robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul," - George Bernard Shaw

“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f—k things up.” - Barack Obama

“End of quote. Repeat the line.” - wise words from Joe Biden

You mean regarding the opening post?
OK, point taken.

But that was not a science post, it was advocacy, he didn't try to get into the details.

Mr. Meyers tries to get down into the nuts and bolts with the scientists to present the appearance of "balance", at that level, he needs more real scientific cred.
Had he been a real climate scientist, his case might not have been so easy to pick apart.

BTW, it seems that Mr. Meyer's main motivation, like that of many denialists, is that he is a Libertarian (whom with which I share much common ground)

IMHO, many of them seem to illogically deny the overwhelming consensus of climate scientists on this because they can''t wrap their head around the heresy that this is a case in which free markets do fail.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

If youre not sure what we are doing is affecting the planet try this;

Go into your garage, start your car and let it run for just a little while with the door closed, anything changing?

If you think we`re not having any affect then try it out

Kinda makes ya think...

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I've decided to accept the fact - I'll always be a big kid!

Tried it. Didn't notice any effects.

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I :heart; Q

Yep if you are dead, then carbon monoxide won't kill ya again

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So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.

All the shit going down around the world and you're worked up about a two degree increase in temperature over a century?  Priorities, friend, priorities.  Let's get rid of fascism first before its comeback continues to rise.  Shipheads like the so-called lawyer and the fisherman love big government and all the oppression that goes with it.  Better deal with those goose steppers before worrying about something irreversible like too many people shitting in their own yard.  

Dead wrong is not dead it seems.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.