I don't duck my head down here too often.  I felt particularly overwhelmed this evening with a burst of love for someone out there that convinced themself they were an atheist even though they knew they were supressing the truth deep down inside.  You need to know how greatly loved you are by God.  

I'd like you to meet my friend Todd in the link below.  Todd came to my church up in PA on the day he was to commit suicide.  That Saturday night before church he pulled out his double barrell shot gun and was about to shoot himself.  Not being a believer he decided he better give God a chance.  Sound contradictory I know.  He said he would go to church the next day for the first time and if God didn't meet him he was going to come home that night and go through with self-murder.  So that's when I met Todd that Sunday morning.  Some amazing things happened that morning which I don't have time for but let's just say he's alive and well as you'll see in a moment.

One of many interesting points in Todd's journey came when God instantly delivered him from countless years of hardcore drug abuse.  He had a dream where Jesus visited him in a vivid way.  I remember Todd describing the entire scene very precisely.  When he woke up he never touched another drug again.  And that was after me watching him waiver back and forth between the straight and narrow and relapses.  This is encounter with God was life altering and it was over for good.  He went to tell his grandma and aunt the story.  The aunt was an atheist.  She had that look on her face that some of you probably have reading this, like yeah whatever you say you kook.  Her countenance quickly changed as Todd recounted the dream he had.  His grandma began to weep and his aunt had that blank stare on her face.  It turns out Todd's deceased grandpa used to be an alcoholic, that is until he had the identical dream with the exact description, and he woke up never to have a drink again.  

So I share that to set up this video because someone out there in 2ndlight land needs to see it.  You see friends, you have more value and are more loved than you could possibly imagine.  

thisisgoodnews

P.S. Todd is in an excellent documentary entitled "Father of Lights." The sequel is premiering in select locations called "Holy Ghost."  I haven't seen it but he told me that he and Brian "Head" Welch from Korn are in it in a scene where they let the love of God loose at a Korn concert and all Heaven breaks loose.  Go see Father of Lights though.  Seriously.  Do it.

Hang in there whoever you are.  Everything's gonna be alright!

-------------------------

Jesus invented surfing...
Matthew 14:22-33

www.facebook.com/churchonthebeach

There are no true atheists, they all know deep down that there is a God. They just can't conceive how he could love them. Let the fake anger begin, and God bless!

Watch very closely in the video when his left leg grows out.  What do you see happening under the skin as Todd uses Jesus' name? 

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Jesus invented surfing...
Matthew 14:22-33

www.facebook.com/churchonthebeach

There is no devil.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

WG -- yes, there is a devil. He doesn't refer to himself as such of course, because he is quite the liar deceiving the foolish into believing he is equal with God. He also fancies himself a giver of light...as I presume you well know. But the light he gives is only eternal fire and those who believe his lies will persish in a place prepared especially for him by the Living God. As Mark says, it is a place where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched. I'm not so sure I would trust his "enlightenment."

If you would like to learn more about his fall from heaven, I'd suggest...in the King James Version preferably...reading Isaiah 14:3-21(especially verse 12), Ezekiel 28, and Luke 10:18.

Edited: 09/11/2014 at 09:43 AM by ummm

Pastor Gabriel Hughes is not convinced:

http://pastorgabehughes.blogspot.com/2014/09/a-review-of-wanderlust-documentary-holy.html

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...

Oh, you mean like... FK? This explains alot! Thanks!

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Water dissolving...and water removing
There is water at the bottom of the ocean

In all fairness I haven't seen the movie yet.  However to condemn Brian "Head" Welch and my friend Todd White sounds much more like the accuser of the brethern (satan) than God who "didn't come to judge/condemn the world but to save it."  I know Todd and his accusations couldn't be further from the truth.  So if it sounds like judgement it's not God.  Period.  Jesus didn't care about his image and and he hung out with real people.  Sinners. Prostitues. Mafioso-type tax collectors.  He showed them non-judgement.  His judgement was on the religious-types who were judging hypocrites themselves.  This supposed pastor's statement in that article says this:

 

"Not once in any of their street encounters do they share the gospel. They don't talk about sin, they don't talk about repentance, and they don't tell their hearers that they're under the wrath of God unless they come to Christ."

By definition that is not the Gospel.  Gospel means good news.  That doesn't sound like good news.  From the vantage point of the cross all sin has already been paid for once and for all.  All sin past, present, and future has been dealt with.  "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself."  That's the true Gospel.  If God already reconciled us through His Son, why is this pastor saying that people are "under God's wrath?"  

Just believe the Truth.  God loves you.  It's unconditional and constant.  Nothing can separate you from His love.  Let that tiny bit of faith, even if it's as small as a grain of a mustard seed, let it embrace His grace.  

-------------------------

Jesus invented surfing...
Matthew 14:22-33

www.facebook.com/churchonthebeach

Paul said that when he preached he came in weakness and in fear and with much trembling so that the message of Jesus would not depend on man's wisdom but on God's power. With the Bethel/Bickle/White crew it seems to be more about the messenger and their gifts and powers then it is about sin, repentence and redemtion through the blood of Christ. That is the gospel message and that is why Jesus came. They preach themselves shrouded in religious language. Paul preached Christ crucified - a stumbling block to jews and foolishness to gentiles. In Galatians 1 Paul says that if even and an angel preaches a gospel different then the one he preached, they should be eternally condemend. That gospel is the good news that if we confess our sins, we can be saved from hell by the death of our God in our place.

But we in America prefer a show, and men get rich and famous off the shows they do in the name of the Lord. We need to put charasmatic and eloquent men aside and see what the Bible says about false prophets masquerading as angels of light with all kinds of false signs and wonders...and they preach what our itching ears want to hear drawing many into darkness.

Paul says that when he preached, he resolved to know nothing while he was with the people but Jesus Christ and him crucified. That is the one thing the people must hear. Yet if you watch the current band of self-proclaimed prophets and apostles you will hear none - or little of that. And guess what...they are all rich from their ministries, especially Bill Johnson.  I could go on forever on this sickness in the "church" using just scripture...but that's a little too long for this forum.

1 Corinthians 1:17 - 2:5 speaks clearly about the humility  of both the messenger and the purity of the message that needs to be preached. Most of the above is from that passage. 

 

...And whether or not someone is a friend means nothing when it comes to ministry in Christ. We live for the praise and acceptance of the one and only God - not man. What matters is that all of us hold fast to the eternal word of truth that lasts forever, and in humility and love.

Edited: 09/11/2014 at 10:58 AM by ummm

I'll take your word that Mr. White is sincere and a nice guy so I'll withhold judgement on his motives. But I judge his act to be that of a street magician using the power of suggestion to illicit compliance from his marks. He may well believe that he is lengthening legs but then he is just be mimmicking the methods of a charismatic that did it to him many years ago without realizing what is really happening.

 

Irrespective of your disagreement with the fire and brimstone beliefs of the Southern Baptists, the guy is a real pastor with a real congregation.

 

 

-------------------------
...

Edited: 09/11/2014 at 11:08 AM by scombrid

gsusSurfs, not that you care, but the progs are on this site are militantly anti-Christian. If they had their way, they'd ban Christianity. They have been programmed to believe that Christianity, along with the U.S., is responsible for all the world's ills. You would get a much better reception if you came on here, announced that you were a fundamentalist Muslim and wanted to chop off the heads of all progs on the forum. I am not kidding. Nonetheless, good luck getting through to these heathens. No one else has.

-------------------------
I :heart; Q

I listen to some of these guys, but not a lot.  They're very Christcentric from everything I've heard.  You'll have to show me a  quote of them preaching themselves.  Speaking of Todd specifically you'd be very wrong with this statement.  I just watched his testimony on youtube.  It's 1 1/2 hours of mostly the Word and his strong appeal for people in that church to give their lives to the Lord, their WHOLE lives.  Sounds good to me.

Also, you state "that if we confess our sins" we can be saved.  That sounds right, but it's very wrong.  Over and over again throughout the Word we see that it is the finished work of Christ alone that HAS forgiven.  It HAS made peace with God and us.  It HAS made us holy.  We WERE forgiven.  We WERE seated with Him.  It's a finished work.  

Hebrews speaks plainly to the fact that in the old covenant it was the blood sacrifice that forgave sin.  This of course had to be done continually.  The people had a confidence back then in the blood, not their asking for forgiveness.  Jesus' blood is the once-for-all sacrifice.  It was his ratifying the new agreement/testament.  God could swear by no one greater so He swore by Himself  and established a new way of relating to us.  He became like us and in dying for us also died as us.  He didn't just do something for us, He did something TO us.  We WERE crucified with Him.  We WERE raised with Him.  You have no part to play in the new contract.  Old convenant it was you keep your part and God will keep His end of the bargain.  The new contract took you out of the equation.  He did it Himself.  You are simply listed as beneficiary.  All people.  Good and bad.  Yes I need faith to receive His grace, yet even that is not of myself it is His gift.  It's Jesus plus nothing.  Hell will be reserved for those who insist on getting what they deserve rather than simply believing that His grace is enough.  

So back to your point that "if we confess our sins."  We've been taught that growing up I know.  Preachers preach that I know.  It sounds right.  However that would mean that God is withholding forgiveness until you ask for it, like He just doles it out in little portions.   As if His grace depended on you.    You say, ah but 1 John chapter 1 says "if we confess..."  That chapter is clealry written to gnostics who didn't believe in Jesus being God, having a tangible body, or sin being something that is real.  So he is addressing that audience in that chapter.  That is the only appropriate context or else it contradicts everything else in the new testament.

 Is it good to confess our sins?  Of course!  But it's not for God to somehow forgive you more because we see that's already been accomplished in Christ.  No, confession is like baptism in that it's for our conscious to remain clear and we can realize and enjoy the reality of the forgiveness we already have in Him.  This is our true identiy.  People aren't sinners until they pull themselves up by their bootstraps and somehow confess enough or live good enough.  Because how much confession is enough?  What if I forget something?  Does a prayer of ommission cover it?  Religion is a slippery slope.  That's why Jesus eradicated it and established a firm foundation.  He makes us secure in who we really are.  We're redeemed and forever loved by Him.  

So yes I ablsolutely agree that it's Christ and Him crucified.  In fact Paul rebukes Peter for getting away from the simplicity of faith alone and trying to mix religion with grace.  If you actually listen to a full sermon from Bill Johson or some of Todd's preaching then you would think different I'm sure.  You can take a snippet of anyone or pull something out of it's context and say, see I told you so.  When you believe the best in people and pull out the good you'll see a lot of good.  God sees good in all of us.  That's what a good Father does, and He's alltogether good.

-------------------------

Jesus invented surfing...
Matthew 14:22-33

www.facebook.com/churchonthebeach

I'm too lazy to go pull quotes and video clips but i've seen plenty. They don't preach Jesus christ and repentance for our sins. You sound a bit universalist my brotha.

In the Lord's prayer - when God himself teaches us how to pray to the Father, he tells us to repent of our sins. John the Apostle whom Jesus loves, tells us that if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and purify us from unrighteousness. In Hebrews Paul says that if, as believers, we fall back into sin, their is no sacrifice for sins left for us since we trample the grace of God all over again, Instead Paul says that the raging fire reserved for God's enemies is what remains. Jesus mentions repentance in Matthew 3:1-12, 4:17, 9:1-13, 12:38-42, 21:26-30 qnd i could go on and on. Any message that doesn't mention repentance of sins to receive the free gift of grace is wrong. And as Paul says in acts 8, he proves his repentance by obedience. Paul accepted Christ after Jesus went up to heaven and John wrote the confession thing well after Jesus ascended, so any dispensational arguement doesn't work. grace and obedience go together.

The road is narrow and few find it, says Jesus, so living like the world and holding up a get out of hell free card ain't gonna work.

Edited: 09/11/2014 at 11:39 AM by ummm

There is no devil in the Torah.
Satan was invented, in the Christian faith, by Emperor Constantine at the Council of Nicaea. It was probably borrowed from Zoroastrianism.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Edited: 09/11/2014 at 11:50 AM by WG

Haha, I'm pretty sure preaching the finished work of Christ makes me a Christian.  I didn't want this thread to go off on this tangent which is why I addressed it to my atheist friends.  I want them to know God considers them a friend and He's not mad, sad, or disappointed.  It's always us "Christians" that have issues with this.  The very essence of God's nature is Agape love.  That's who He IS.  God is not a scitzo where He's love over here and then angry over there.  Unconditional love is just that, unconditional, all the time.  You do nothing to earn or deserve it.  It's always the pastor types that say, yeah brother but you give them a license sin.  Well it's God's heart and plan so they need to take that up with Him.  He knows, however, that when you belive this Gospel and embrace His full unconditional grace you are changed.  You don't want to sin any more.  It's not this lack of a sinful life that pleases God though.  Sure He wants that because of sin's destruction wreacking havoc in our lives.  The woman caught in adultry first encountered Jesus' judgement, which was non-judgement.  He DIDN'T condemn her but rather dismissed her accusers, the religious ones.  Religion was ready to kill her.  Only until she personally encountered the unconditional grace of who Jesus is could she be empowered to "go and sin no more."  Your position is that you go and sin no more and then there's grace.  That's not grace at all.  Grace is sufficient and it will change a person.  How could you want anything else after you meet Love, Grace, and Truth Personified?  You just want to know Him more.

Lastly, your verses again are out of context of the entire new conventant.  You have to read the bible through the lense of Christ's finished work.  You forget that is says Jesus was born under the law and his audience was those under the law.  So when He says that your righteousness must be better than that of the Pharisees, who were almost perfect in the law, does He mean it?  Doesn't that contradict grace by faith?  That chapter says we have to pluck out our eye if it causes us to sin or cut off our hand.  There should be a whole world full of maimed people then!  What was he doing and saying?  He was showing the impossiblity of saving yourself by your own efforts.  He was showing that righteousness that was by faith alone, which God long foretold.  If righteousness is by faith then there is no confession, act, behavior that makes me right with God.  Granted, when I believe then those other things will follow.  So in context then those other scriptues (which are misquoted by the way. Acts 8 doesn't say anything like this.  In fact it says Phillip preached Christ.  He didn't preach man's part.  The listener wanted to be baptized after hearing it and Phillips only requirement was that you believe.  He didn't tell him to confess or start acting holy.  To preach Christ is to understand that He's made us holy (that's Hebrews 10, read it).   Your Hebrews reference about there no longer remaining a sacrifice for sin is saying IN CONTEXT that where else can you go for forgiveness?  It's only found in the blood and if you try and run and look for it elsewhere it's never to be found.  There no longer remains another sacrifice than that what's been given.  

Anyway, blessings to you to my brother.  It's a constant work in progress to undo the bondage of religion, I know all too well.  It takes a constant renewing of your mind and hearing the Truth to get it.  The Spirit bears witness to the Truth though.  Just listen.  You can hear Him now.

 

-------------------------

Jesus invented surfing...
Matthew 14:22-33

www.facebook.com/churchonthebeach

Why would you bring the Torah up?

The first 5 books of the Bible were part of the law that Jesus fulfilled.

It was the beginning not the end.

That's like saying there is no evil in the movie Childs Play because Chuckie doesn't actually show up until 1/3 the movie is over.

Wow!



-------------------------
The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Wow indeed.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

The 1st Council of Nicaea was in 325 A.D., while 1 Peter 5:8 was written somewhere between 50 A.D. and 100 A.D., and said:



about 49 more different English translations here

OK, I'm off a few hundred years on the invention.
Thanks

This guy put it better:

"Jews believe there is The Satan, but we do not believe there is The Devil

For Jews, anything that even remotely conflicts with the idea that Gd is One and Indivisible will be rejected out of hand because it precludes true pure monotheism. The idea that there is a Gd in heaven above who fights against a god of the underworld, or of hell, or a Good Gd who is in eternal opposition to an Evil Gd, is not monotheism"

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

True, but I believe it's important to distinguish that the concept existed in early texts (which Christians consider divinely inspired) that were adopted into the Canon, not just invented by a committee.

Another New Testament reference from Ephesians 6:12



As I understand the Jewish interpretation, The Old Testament texts refer to the Satan concept more like this as a spiritual enemy, slanderer, deceiver, etc...

Not so dissimilar, but not entirely this either: