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Topic Title: Solar vrs Dirty Coal
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Created On: 07/29/2014 07:25 AM
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 07/29/2014 07:25 AM
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matt_t

Posts: 1315
Joined Forum: 10/21/2003

Solar vs "dirt" coal

Interesting article from a small town newspaper in heart of coal country.

"There are now as many jobs in the solar (150,000) and wind (50,000) industries as there are in the coal industry (200,000)." Green renewables started slowly but have exploded in the last five years, becoming one of America's fastest growing industries. Wind tripled capacity and solar capacity is sixteen times greater. Grunwald reports that a new solar-power system is installed on an American roof every three or four minutes, and more solar was installed in the past 18 months than in the previous 30 years. An analysis by Citigroup reported that "the age of renewables has begun" and with costs dropping and storage issues being solved by very innovative research, renewable energy has become mainstream and desirable. Read more: Solar power, not 'dirty coal,' is the future | Johnson City Press http://www.johnsoncitypress.co...e-future#ixzz38rqSguH5 Follow us: @JCPress on Twitter | JohnsonCityPress on Facebook


 07/29/2014 08:06 AM
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tpapablo

Posts: 44033
Joined Forum: 07/25/2003

I have to pay for those freeloading jerks who go with solar. I don't with people relying on coal.



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 07/29/2014 08:59 AM
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matt_t

Posts: 1315
Joined Forum: 10/21/2003

your taxes subsidize billions in fossil fuels also.
 07/29/2014 09:00 AM
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crankit

Posts: 17493
Joined Forum: 07/30/2003

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C..._electricity_by_source

A 2010 study by Global Subsidies Initiative compared global relative subsidies of different energy sources. Results show that fossil fuels receive 0.8 US cents per kWh of energy they produce (although it should be noted that the estimate of fossil fuel subsidies applies only to consumer subsidies and only within non-OECD countries), nuclear energy receives 1.7 cents / kWh, renewable energy (excluding hydroelectricity) receives 5.0 cents / kWh and biofuels receive 5.1 cents / kWh in subsidies.[9]



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Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18
 07/29/2014 10:15 AM
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tpapablo

Posts: 44033
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Originally posted by: matt_t your taxes subsidize billions in fossil fuels also.

No they don't. Quite the contrary.



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 07/29/2014 10:35 AM
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tpapablo

Posts: 44033
Joined Forum: 07/25/2003

Look at these idiots. Basically, when we install these things, we are paying people to dig holes and fill them back in.

These idiots -

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/07/29/Twelve-Useless-Wind-Turbines



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Edited: 07/29/2014 at 11:36 AM by tpapablo
 07/29/2014 11:11 AM
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matt_t

Posts: 1315
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Originally posted by: crankit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C..._electricity_by_source



A 2010 study by Global Subsidies Initiative compared global relative subsidies of different energy sources. Results show that fossil fuels receive 0.8 US cents per kWh of energy they produce (although it should be noted that the estimate of fossil fuel subsidies applies only to consumer subsidies and only within non-OECD countries), nuclear energy receives 1.7 cents / kWh, renewable energy (excluding hydroelectricity) receives 5.0 cents / kWh and biofuels receive 5.1 cents / kWh in subsidies.[9]


its easy to pick and choose wiki articles.
Energy Subsidies

Allocation of subsidies in the United States A 2011 study by the consulting firm Management Information Services, Inc. (MISI)[19] estimated the total historical federal subsidies for various energy sources over the years 1950 - 2010. The study found that oil, natural gas, and coal received $369 billion, $121 billion, and $104 billion (2010 dollars), respectively, or 70% of total energy subsidies over that period. Oil, natural gas, and coal benefited most from percentage depletion allowances and other tax-based subsidies, but oil also benefited heavily from regulatory subsidies such as exemptions from price controls and higher-than-average rates of return allowed on oil pipelines. The MISI report found that non-hydro renewable energy (primarily wind and solar) benefited from $74 billion in federal subsidies, or 9% of the total, largely in the form of tax policy and direct federal expenditures on research and development (R&D). Nuclear power benefited from $73 billion in federal subsidies, 9% of the total, largely in the form of R&D, while hydro power received $90 billion in federal subsidies, 12% of the total.


 07/29/2014 12:31 PM
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crankit

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However, many of the "subsidies" available to the oil and gas industries are general business opportunity credits, available to all US businesses (particularly, the foreign tax credit mentioned above).

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Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18
 07/29/2014 01:18 PM
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havanabama

Posts: 3719
Joined Forum: 07/23/2003

I love my free loading jerk electric bill each month, $18.03 (fees) plus the credits I'm racking up cause the installer accidently installed 3 extra panels, gave me a deal. Electric car may be in my future.

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 07/29/2014 02:03 PM
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sirfir

Posts: 2320
Joined Forum: 02/10/2012

.... and, we pay a shitload of taxes on fuels of all kinds. Don't forget that little tid bit.

You buy solar for your home, you only pay sales tax and you get a break on your yearly taxes.
 07/30/2014 07:44 AM
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SurferMic

Posts: 1251
Joined Forum: 06/30/2012

Havana, do you mind sharing your inial instal cost?  Co-worker in NJ installed a large system and it ran 70K, he got some back from the Gov about 20K rebates but still has 40K+ invested, He figured out it would take 15-20 yrs to break even.  15-20 yrs? in FL salt corosion and windstorm damage would seem to cause the return on solar to be upside down.  I do not think panels will last 20 yrs with littlte to no maintancene in FL.  In other areas such as AZ, inland TX, etc. I could see the cost return value being better. 

 

Would be nice to have on a vaccation home only used in winter, sell alll the power back inthe summer months to pay for a boat and slip in Marina Del Rey, CA.  Return home in winter.

 07/30/2014 08:10 AM
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Fish Killer

Posts: 71439
Joined Forum: 10/09/2005

^^^what he said!^^^

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The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.
 07/30/2014 08:51 AM
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scombrid

Posts: 18030
Joined Forum: 07/24/2003

Originally posted by: SurferMic FL salt corosion and windstorm damage

Maybe rolling the dice on wind.  They should be engineered to handle regular events.  Less windy here on average than in TX or OK.  Just have to weather a hurricane once every so often.  Relative risk would depend on expected return interval on storms in engineering.  Like I said, rolling the dice.

Regarding salt, you don't have to move very far inland to get into a low-corrosion environment. 



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 07/30/2014 10:11 AM
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RustyTruck

Posts: 33375
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Move inland? What?



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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".
 07/30/2014 11:49 AM
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havanabama

Posts: 3719
Joined Forum: 07/23/2003

for 7.42 kW, 28 - 265Kw panels, the total cost was 26k, I paid 7k, I got a rebate from TECO of $2/Kw and the cost was $3.64. Then I got the 30% fed credit. I live in Tampa so no salt issue. each panel has its own micro inverter. All stasinless railing and bolts, The company enphase's web site allows me to monitor the system web based. at my costs and power useage my payback is 5.2 years.

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Ah, religion, bigotry dressed up as morality.
 07/30/2014 01:27 PM
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Fish Killer

Posts: 71439
Joined Forum: 10/09/2005

You must have about an $80 per month electric usage in the summer to have a need of only 7.42 kw. Do you ever run AC?

-------------------------
The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.
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