The Democrats passed Obamacare all by themselves. How did the Republicans prevent them from going single payer?

I don't really need an answer to that question because I'm pretty positive it would be as worthless as the original statement.

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"The government who robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul," - George Bernard Shaw

“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f—k things up.” - Barack Obama

“End of quote. Repeat the line.” - wise words from Joe Biden

All I want is to repeal the tax subsidy for employer provided care.  Get rid of that and the rules that now require insurers to cover all comers and we'll have a real market based system where people go out and shop for the coverage that is offered based on their condition and ability to pay.   

While we're cutting the market distorting employer provided insurace subsidy let's cut the marginal rate and get rid of all the "deductions" that do nothing but fuck up every market they touch. 

No more home mortgage interest deduction, no more child tax credit, no more 50 page income tax returns.  No more fucking FHA housing subsidy bullshit.

People pay some fixed income based tax rate that is sufficient to fund government and quit fucking around with the tax code and using the tax code for vote buying and social engineering.  No more of that crap.

 

 

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and all I want is to win the Powerball Lottery .... our odds are about the same



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"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

 a real market based system where people go out and shop for the coverage that is offered based on their condition and ability to pay.  

 

 

 

IF they have a bad condition OR if they just don't have the ability to pay...

what then.... go away from the real market based system that in theory doesn't care if you can't pay? Or say so sad to bad???

Oh, rules that require insurers to cover all comers... that doesn't sound like a real market... unless they can say sure we cover that $50K down and $20K a month... 

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It isn't a free market if insurers are forced to take in people that they don't want.  That's why I think that provision along with the rest of ACA should be dumped.  But I don't want to stop with ACA when the ax is swinging.  The tax code needs chopped to bits too.

You want price caps too?

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did you actually just advocate for people to die that can not afford the medical care they need?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?



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"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

lbl

I believe you have broken the code that teabaggers communicate in. Of course that is what they want. They pose no other solution, so it is assumed.

Kind of like how when teabaggers bitch and moan about everthing that Obama does. You know when they personalize . Like : all the problems on the border are Obamas fault, or the airliner got shot down because of Obama, Its Obamas fault that the Israelis and Palestinians are fighting...what is the teabaggin code here?



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So if you are a surfer I wish you the prosperity that allows you more time to pursue the salt water dream, and the true happiness that comes from warm water, clean waves and the companionship of your fellow surfers. If you are an internet troll just spewing bs then f off.

The progs are advocating that sick people be allowed to die, not us. But I am in favor of it.

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I :heart; Q

That was scom's posting I highlighted and asked about ... normally I would not put him with the TB'er crowd .... but given the ad nauseum times he has posted his insurance "solution" (which has a snowballs chance of ever getting done) ... he just might have snapped and jumped the shark.



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"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

This is why Europeans think we're stupid.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".

They have good reason to think we are stupid - any country that votes in the PiC can't be all that smart. That aside, the Europeans are stupid. There is a reason we divorced ourselves from them and, in particular, their forms of gov't.

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I :heart; Q

We're the Walmart of the world. Cheap to visit but full of freaks.

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Capitalism is based on the ridiculous notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.

In biology, such behavior of cells is called "cancer".

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Edited: 07/23/2014 at 06:21 AM by scombrid

linton is right; ACA still hasn't done anything about the cost per unit of care

also, when that holy grail of single-payer is achieved, and costs continue to skyrocket because more people take advantage of more services, and nothing is done to lower the unit cost, services will have to be restricted

you can declare health care to be a right, but until you specify what level of health care and how it will be funded, it means nothing

you can't force doctors to work

scom is not a teabagger; it's sad how you guys resort to insults when someone offers a contrary opinion

There's really nothing in my market based reforms that preclude a public backstop, except that I'm told these days that health care is not a right and that nobody should be forced to pay for somebodyelse's health care. 

So why not push through a free market solution with no public option and let the chips fall where they may?  It is what the public wants right?

And the free market solution that I advocate will never come to pass.  That I know.   But it would be the most cost effective solution, even with a public backstop for those that fall through the cracks.  It would also eliminate all this wrangling over what health care employers will and will not be required to provide.  As it stands, there should be no exceptions.  If a procedure is legal and required of some employers to provide care then that care should be required of all. But we could dump that argument all together if people bought their own insurance.

 

 

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But we could dump that argument all together if people bought their own insurance.

Isn't that the idea behind the ACA?

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I was right.

Is everybody going to go onto exchanges or are employers of a certain minimum size compelled to offer health care?

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They have to do it or face a fine.

My company pays roughly 10 grand a year for my insurance, the fine they would have to pay if they dropped me is roughly 20% of that total. Isn't it a better deal to pay the fine?



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I was right.

Might be for some employers of low paid chattle. 

Most employers are better off buying you the untaxed $10,000 insurance rather than effectively cutting your pay by $10,000 and paying the government the fine, this is especially true if health care was part of the compensation package prior to ACA.

So the combination of the tax subsidy and now the fine for not offering employer provided plans pretty must garrantees that employers will have to offer ACA compliant plans. 

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How do you accomplish that with a populist movement?

It order to accomplish this goal you need to remove the tax subsidy for employer provided care.

The hospital-insurance complex would destroy any candidate that suggested such with populist campaign ads about that candidate raising taxes.

Again, the populists will get turned upside down with the campaign ads.  Populists are convinced now by the ad-men that ACA is taking away freedom with the ridiculous federal requirements and that Hobby Lobby is fighting for freedom.  You try to take away requirements like guarranteeing coverage to people with pre-existing conditions and the ad-men will turn those populists right round the other way.  The big money got what it wanted with ACA.

 

got rid of kickbacks for the doctors, threw out all these ridiculous federal requirements -- and voucherized people below a certain income threshold at 100%, 95%, etc. -- while neither the Left nor Right would completely like this, it would be immensely better than the hash we have done.

The ACA redistributes, but not in the way the Left envisions.  It is not a redistribution from the upper-middle class to the poor; it is rather a redistribution from the middle class to a new tier of middle-managers, bureaucrats (both public and private) and IT people.