Rand Paul

"Reagan introduced something truly poisonous into American conservatism.

It was the notion that you can eat your cake and have it too, that tax cuts pay for themselves and that deficits don't matter. This isn't and wasn't conservatism; it was a loopy utopian denial of math. And the damage it has done to this country's fiscal standing has been deep and permanent. It is one of modern conservatism's cardinal sins. And Paul is addressing it forthrightly - just as he is addressing the terrible, devastating consequences of neo-conservatism for America and the world in the 21st Century."

AS

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

You forgot to say "you fascists!" in the subtitle.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

If tax cuts and tax breaks are so "poisonous" then why is a liberal state like NY offering corproate tax breaks of no taxes for 10 years to any company that sets up shop there?

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"The government who robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul," - George Bernard Shaw

“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f—k things up.” - Barack Obama

“End of quote. Repeat the line.” - wise words from Joe Biden

summed up in two words ... corporate extortion!

Do explain. NY is being extorted or NY is extorting the corporations?

I also think it is pretty simple but my explanation would probably be more along the lines that companies are being taxed to the hilt in NY and are leaving the state in droves. NY sees the problem on the horizon by looking at the trends and data and is trying to bribe companies into the state before NYC becomes the next Detroit.

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"The government who robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul," - George Bernard Shaw

“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f—k things up.” - Barack Obama

“End of quote. Repeat the line.” - wise words from Joe Biden

You see it all the time here in CFL with Disney, The DeVos family (Magic), ect. They cry poor and need "tax breaks" in order to make ends meet all the while racking in billions of dollars. The states and local level gorvenments are trying to create work for their residents and are held essentially hostage to the demands of these corporations. I'm not saying it's right, wrong or indifferent ... just saying it's a fact ... at least in my opinion.

MC assembly in Palm Bay pulled this in an interesting twist. Had been established for years here and said, we want some breaks like the new companies are getting or we're pulling out and shipping production to Mexico. And this is in a state that is fairly "business friendly". 

I had my sales guy stop in recently and he said it's a ghost town in there. I guess Brevard County didn't budge. 

I don't know all the details but it looks like they're outta here. 

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Wrong. They are moving their manufacturing facility from Palm Bay to Melbourne.

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"The government who robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul," - George Bernard Shaw

“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f—k things up.” - Barack Obama

“End of quote. Repeat the line.” - wise words from Joe Biden

Agreed. If you owned a company and you had a competitor offering to pay your employees more money to do the same amount of work, if they went to work for the competitor. You couldn't really blame them all that much for leaving. States have to work hard to keep companies happy, just like companies have to work hard to keep good employees happy and keep them from leaving.

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"The government who robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul," - George Bernard Shaw

“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f—k things up.” - Barack Obama

“End of quote. Repeat the line.” - wise words from Joe Biden

Interesting on the MC thing. Thanks.  I didn't follow it but a little googling says they're going to Melbourne. Either they dislike palm bay or their building was leased. I remember hearing that Walmart is in West Melbourne at 95 because it was cheaper for them than to be just over the line in PB.  MC assembly has quite the facility out there. Where are they going here in MLB I wonder. 

As to being quiet, maybe they work the same schedule as Harris. I don't expect to get any business there anyway.

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There seems to be a wide spread misconception that the economy responds rapidly to government policy changes and intervention.  Fact is it doesn't.  Another fact is the government can't drive the economy long term with spending, it can only provide an environemnt where an economy can thrive and grow.  This is assuming we're talking the same free market capitalist economy that made this nation the world economic leader for a long, long time.

Although I'm sure there would be plenty of disagreement, the economy did improve quite a bit from Reagan's policies.  It took until late in George H's term for the affects to be obvious though.  It even carried on through the Clinton years.  It likely would have kept going had it not been for Clinton's affordable home policies and fair lending legislation. The affect's of that disaster didn't show until late in George W's term.  But the sub prime lending fiasco was clearly casued by the Clinton admin's changes in lending practices that were forced on lenders, that and George taking his eyes off the ball.  Although lenders did what they could with the rules they were given, since that's what capitalist do, they were vilified by the fed when it all crashed.  The fed didn't see it coming becasue collectively the fed doesn't undersatnd cause and effect as it relates to economics.

As for deficit spending, it can either stimulate the economy and spur free market growth, or more commonly, it can be a surrogate for the free market and teet for it to suckle.  History has shown its a bitch to ween off of too.

My point is most of you will need to wait a while to see who's right about Obama's policies and deficit spending.  I would think that suckling sound would be a dead give away though.  Probably too busy listening to the piper to hear it though.

you just jumped the shark with that bit of revisionist BS

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"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

"We can put light where there's darkness, and hope where there's despondency in this country. And part of it is working together as a nation to encourage folks to own their own home." - President George W. Bush, Oct. 15, 2002 Clinton's fault? Yeah...riiiiight...

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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness -
John Kenneth Galbraith

In 2004 Bush and McCain cosponsored a bill that was designed to overhaul and regulate how Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were run and their financing.

Democrats Blocked the bill:

Top receivers of Fannie Mae Funds: Chris Dodd, Barack Obama, andJohn Kerry





"These two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis," "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." - Bawney Fwank



** 2001

April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."

** 2002

May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

** 2003

January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.

February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that "although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations," "the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them." As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. ("Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO," OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)

September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO's review found earnings manipulations.

September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

** 2004

February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore...should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)

June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

** 2005

April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America... Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)

** 2007

July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August - up 115 percent from the year before.

September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month - the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs - and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

** 2008

January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.

January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.

February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.

March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by ... helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that - and Congress is making progress on this - is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.









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"The government who robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul," - George Bernard Shaw

“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f—k things up.” - Barack Obama

“End of quote. Repeat the line.” - wise words from Joe Biden

Bush the elder.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

I can't deny the fact that Dem politicians derailed legislation in 2004, big mistake. But the bigger question is why? What happened was Fannie Mae and Freddy lobbyists called in their chits (i.e. payback for campaign contributions) and the Bill was watered down. This instance in itself is a perfect example of why current day progressives rail against the "Money as Free Speech" argument that conserve Republicans hold so dear. Is the Dem party guilty of it....hell yes! But if the instances are tallied up in R and D columns the R column is MUCH longer. Why is it that Rich special interests (including Unions, which by the way contribute far less than corporate interests) voices are so much louder? The ONLY way out of the partisan stalemate is to have some serious campaign finance reform such that it's out in the light of day where each and every dollar comes from. Why are conservative Republicans so dead set against Campaign Finance reform? How is it deemed "reasonable" that corporate entities are now given "personhood"? Why are they so dead set on keeping the public in the dark on where the money is coming from. Sure, many Dem candidates are in that fold, but the Lions share reside on the R side of the House.

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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness -
John Kenneth Galbraith

Here's one for you Eebs!!

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

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Romans 8;18-32 John 3;16-18

Why the sudden interest in Reagan, progs? A comparison only makes the PiC look worse.

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I :heart; Q

Hardly, but we have our own realities.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Ah douchie, haven't seen you in a while. Piss off.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti