Hang 10... or as they now say...hit the lip!

2nd Light Forums
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: The last shall be first?
Topic Summary: Puerto Rico may lead the way with solar and micro grids.
Created On: 11/23/2017 09:20 AM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 11/23/2017 09:20 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


johnnyboy

Posts: 11280
Joined: 07/22/2003

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/11/22/565917467/if-the-developing-world-can-go-solar-maybe-puerto-rico-can-too

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 11/23/2017 09:51 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


SunriseSurfer

Posts: 8235
Joined: 07/22/2003

Why not Puerto Rico?

Tesla has built the world's biggest battery in Australia

"Tesla teamed up with a French renewable energy firm and the local government to install
the battery, which Musk promised to deliver within 100 days of signing a contract -- or it
would be free.
The battery needs to be operational by early December for Musk to meet his own deadline."







-------------------------
Puerto Rico 11 - 24 - 2013
 11/23/2017 10:50 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


johnnyboy

Posts: 11280
Joined: 07/22/2003

My kids think Elon Musk is a superhero. He may be when all of his visions become our present.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

 11/23/2017 01:50 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


dingpatch

Posts: 12376
Joined: 07/24/2003

I know a guy that's fairly high-up in FPL maintenance. His feedback from some of his buddies involved in rebuilding the "grid" down in PR say that it was all a POS to begin with. Lots of concrete light/power/telephone poles were blown down because the were not really dug in; rather just a couple feet down into the dirt/rock and then a barrel or two of cement poured in around them. A frog fart could have blown them over.
 11/28/2017 08:48 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Karma

Posts: 7924
Joined: 01/26/2005

I saw plenty that were broken in two or three places...wooden ones too.

-------------------------


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
 11/28/2017 09:14 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


chopola

Posts: 845
Joined: 09/04/2004

You have got to get the lights on before you can make improvements. Where is the money going to come from to rebuild twice? The Ideal situation would be for one of the big energy players to buy the system after everyone is back on, then they could proceed with the green/renewable improvements.
 11/29/2017 06:27 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


WG

Posts: 34768
Joined: 03/10/2005

Solar and renewables require a whole different sort of grid.
If the old one was such a mess, it might make better sense to build a sustainable one, rather than patching the old.

-------------------------
Lordy, there are tapes.
 11/30/2017 12:45 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


ww

Posts: 14186
Joined: 08/17/2007

Andrew, 1992, broke whole rows of the biggest concrete poles.  Possibly FPL has sturdier ones now.  

PR's public power company was a wreck for years, creating a huge problem for the island's economy.  Electricity at twice the normal mainland price with terrible reliability. 

 11/30/2017 08:31 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Karma

Posts: 7924
Joined: 01/26/2005

I will have a couple MW Solar Collection and Storage on my Farm. Also, there needs to be a way to protect panels during big storms. Solar Shutters.

-------------------------


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
 11/30/2017 10:15 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


chopola

Posts: 845
Joined: 09/04/2004

Originally posted by: WG

Solar and renewables require a whole different sort of grid.

If the old one was such a mess, it might make better sense to build a sustainable one, rather than patching the old.





How long do you think the people of PR should wait in the dark for this "whole different sort of grid"?
 11/30/2017 12:41 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


TeeBirdForever

Posts: 15
Joined: 08/21/2016

However long wouldn't be long enough for you.

 12/02/2017 06:22 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


WG

Posts: 34768
Joined: 03/10/2005

Originally posted by: chopola

Originally posted by: WG

Solar and renewables require a whole different sort of grid.

If the old one was such a mess, it might make better sense to build a sustainable one, rather than patching the old.


How long do you think the people of PR should wait in the dark for this "whole different sort of grid"?


They shouldn't wait at all, they should just do it.

Because a decentralized electric capacity can be built from the inside out, don't need to wait for the proper level bribes to flow from a corrupt government to a monopoly utility or politically connected power company. Don't need to hire $150 and hr lineman or $300 an hour managers.

Just do it.



-------------------------
Lordy, there are tapes.
 12/03/2017 07:45 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


chopola

Posts: 845
Joined: 09/04/2004

Originally posted by: WG

Originally posted by: chopola



Originally posted by: WG



Solar and renewables require a whole different sort of grid.



If the old one was such a mess, it might make better sense to build a sustainable one, rather than patching the old.




How long do you think the people of PR should wait in the dark for this "whole different sort of grid"?




They shouldn't wait at all, they should just do it.



Because a decentralized electric capacity can be built from the inside out, don't need to wait for the proper level bribes to flow from a corrupt government to a monopoly utility or politically connected power company. Don't need to hire $150 and hr lineman or $300 an hour managers.



Just do it.[/





Take money away from rebuilding the old system and the poorest areas will go years without electricity. The cost to go green is so high, it could never be funded.
 12/03/2017 12:00 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


RegularJoe

Posts: 3124
Joined: 11/20/2011

Originally posted by: WG
Because a decentralized electric capacity can be built from the inside out, don't need to wait for the proper level bribes to flow from a corrupt government to a monopoly utility or politically connected power company. Don't need to hire $150 and hr lineman or $300 an hour managers.


There is validity in this statement. I don't want to see the people of PR go powerless any longer than necessary, so I hope decentralized, temporary efforts can take place immediately.

"Dirty" diesel generators could be deployed quickly to areas where a small, local section of grid is functional. Widespread distribution of gas cooktops (like Coleman camping stoves) could help immediately with food heating needs, and bring down the electric power requirement for the temporary generators; same with LED lighting to replace incandescents.

From that point, the gov't of PR should get aggressive and progressive. Sponsor a competition to industry, instead of paying some gargantuan monolith contractor exorbitant union wages to rebuild the entire island.

In particular, pit a traditional provider against someone like Musk/Tesla. (Musk loves a challenge/dare/bet). Give them each a small-medium size town or province to rebuild; maybe each covering 10% of the population. Whichever one gets done most effectively (based on cost, time, and reliability) gets a contract to rebuild the remainder of the island, at costs (per capita, per watt, per square mile, etc) not to exceed what they spent on the proof-of-concept/capability area.

With competitive forces involved, PR should get the best product cheapest and quickest. And become a light unto the world in the process.

Same type of challenge should be implemented for communications. Regionally distributed, hardened, cell towers with satellite linkage to keep cell towers alive. Perhaps redundant network capability between friendly areas of the Caribbean: San Juan to the USVI, Mayaguez to DR, Haiti to Gitmo and Jamaica, there to Cayman Islands, and there to Cancun. Google and Verizon/AT&T could do this in their sleep if they could be persuaded to be generous, or forced to by smart, competitive pressures.


 12/04/2017 10:24 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


WG

Posts: 34768
Joined: 03/10/2005

Exactly, while the low carbon footprint of renewables is necessary on a global perspective, it's local generation and storage that's the means a different sort of grid.
Renewables excel at that, and batteries are getting there, but they aren't the only source. Even nuclear can work.
Skunk works style microfusion reactions might provide neighborhood scale power in 20 years or so,

-------------------------
Lordy, there are tapes.
Statistics
138210 users are registered to the 2nd Light Forums forum.
There are currently 2 users logged in.

FuseTalk Basic Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2017 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.

Hello to Matt B