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Topic Title: The Simplest Solution to Restore First Peak
Topic Summary: New Edit
Created On: 11/28/2017 07:20 PM
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 11/28/2017 07:20 PM
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TheFirstPeakProject

Posts: 130
Joined: 01/12/2016

Check out our new edit on what happened to First Peak and cheapest and easiest way to fix it.

Don't anyone get their panties in a bunch...a "Sand Video" is in the making but we could have First Peak restored before that edit gets finished.

Enjoy.

The Simplest Solution to Restore First Peak

 



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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org

 11/28/2017 08:24 PM
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Cole

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I thought the drive was for worm rock?

Why the change?

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 11/28/2017 08:31 PM
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TheFirstPeakProject

Posts: 130
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Originally posted by: Cole I thought the drive was for worm rock? Why the change?

You place the panels and then worm reef grows on the panels.  You guys make this seem like it's rocket science. 

We've had a worm reef program in place at Sebastian Inlet since 2009. The course is fixed.



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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org



Edited: 11/28/2017 at 08:54 PM by TheFirstPeakProject
 11/29/2017 06:40 AM
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satbch

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I like the shorter and more simple video and the simpler solution. Good work. Ive already donated and I hope more people will get behind this. It’s too bad so many surfers are so apathetic. 

 11/29/2017 07:44 AM
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TheFirstPeakProject

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Originally posted by: satbch I like the shorter and more simple video and the simpler solution. Good work. Ive already donated and I hope more people will get behind this. It’s too bad so many surfers are so apathetic. 

 

 

Thanks satbch. We're just going to keep charging. We have solutions that involve growing more worm reef. We also have some concepts that naturally transport more sand from the northside to Monster Hole, so both First Peak and Monster Hole get better. It's sad that surfers are the biggest impediment to the project moving forward because this really is a great opportunity for eveyone. Keep the faith! We won't give up.



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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org



Edited: 11/29/2017 at 09:02 AM by TheFirstPeakProject
 11/29/2017 10:54 AM
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weldertom2

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"It's sad that surfers are the biggest impediment to the project moving forward because this really is a great opportunity for everyone. Keep the faith! We won't give up."



Why are surfers the "biggest impediment"?

 11/29/2017 11:06 AM
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tom

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'cause we don't give them any money?

The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit 

 11/29/2017 12:14 PM
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TheFirstPeakProject

Posts: 130
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Originally posted by: weldertom2  Why are surfers the "biggest impediment"?

We have no idea why the local legends or surfshop owners will not publicly endorse the FPP; it's such a huge opporunity for them.

Most surfers would love the legends even more for at least trying.



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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org

 11/29/2017 08:44 PM
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K07

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Maybe shops/legends don't want to get the community's hopes up on one of the most touchy subjects for FL surfers by endorsing a sure fix unless they really know it'll work...

Math/physics does not lie and it should be possible to prove/disprove a hypothesis like this by using it with historical data.  This kind of thing isn't my day job but there are people at Surfline for whom it is their day job so work with them...

I'm not sure what went into that animation, but I think historical swell data should be used (direction, period, height, etc.) coupled with past bathymetry records, and yes including jetty structure measurements, to create heat map animations of wave energy.

Think about all the analysis Surfline has done with say Pipeline's reef system and mechanics.  Well similar analysis could be done for 1st Peak, and not just 1st Peak but the entire Sebastian Inlet zone/surrounding waters.  Once you fully understand excactly what made it tick you can understand why it failed and thus what would bring it back (that barrel clip shows the new jetty in the background btw)...

Here's a link to get started: http://www.sebastianinletdistrict.com/pdf/State_of_the_Sebastian_Inlet_Report_2013.pdf

Page 20, 21, and 22 shows sand has been considerably accumulating at Monster Hole and leaving the north side.  Page 4 touches on the considerable affect Monster Hole (i.e., ebb shoal) has been observed to have on wave refraction (i.e., steering of the swell energy) in the Sebastian Inlet zone.

Without the use of something along the lines of Surfline's Lola models tailored to this application that can illustrate the past/present/future and thus the affect changing variables have numerically on the system, ideas like closing the jetty gaps are just shots in the dark... pipe dreams.

This modeling could include illustrating jetty reflection affect too and answer a series of questions designed to better understand the situation...

E.g., what if the amount of relative jetty reflection energy is determined to have changed by only a negligible amount but relative onshore swell energy north of and adjacent to the jetty has declined by an amount that is considerable?

You've stated in another thread that you believe the opposite is true but can we get like a scaled down demo or something at least??

 11/30/2017 08:06 AM
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RegularJoe

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Originally posted by: K07
Think about all the analysis Surfline has done with say Pipeline's reef system and mechanics.  Well similar analysis could be done for 1st Peak, and not just 1st Peak but the entire Sebastian Inlet zone/surrounding waters. 


The hydrodynamics prof who helped design Slater's wave pool would also be a good resource. He obviously has the simulation tools and ability to model reflections, sloshing, reef interaction, etc.

Wishing the best for all in this!
 11/30/2017 09:14 AM
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TheFirstPeakProject

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Originally posted by: K07 Surfline's Lola models



K07 - The FPP is not a spokesperson for Surfline, but here is what we can say.

Surfline has been very supportive of our efforts and they are keen to seeing FP come back.  The FPP was covered in an article on Surfline. Here is the link.

In laymen's terms, the Lola Model compiles global climate data (primarily wave & wind) and generates synthetic forecast data. Their algorithm just happens to be the best in the world.  The is similar to the Google search engine being better than Bing or Yahoo.

What Lola is not is a physics engine.  Computational Fluid Dynamics or CFD models run the physical governing equations, in this case Navier Stokes, which are calibrated in laboratories. These are also known as numerical models.  In those State of the Inlet reports you are seeing results from the Army Corps of Engineer's numerical model called the Surface Water Modelling System or SMS.  This modelling work is performed by Professors and PhD candidates at Florida Tech. The funding comes from the Army Corps and the Sebastian Inlet Tax District. Members of the team here at the FPP are authors of previous State of the Inlet reports.  Yew!

Lola is a spectral and data assimilation model.  LOLA provides the wave forecast and it's up to surfers to determine how those conditions will break or barrel at their local spots. A Fully 3D CFD model can resolve actual wave mechanics such as wave breaking. Basically, they are two completely different animals. To put the whole LOLA model in perspective, everyone should write Surfline an email and ask them to do an updated "Mechanics of First Peak" article.

And speaking of your pipe dreams regarding closing the gaps... And to think some people in Brevard County once said the same thing about walking on the moon.



-------------------------

The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org



Edited: 12/01/2017 at 11:27 AM by TheFirstPeakProject
 11/30/2017 08:09 PM
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Cole

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Nice with the worm rock.

The carbon fiber seems like a waste of time, I imagine it's too hard for the worms to hold on to. Why not try some type of webbing? If you can get the worms to grow, getting them to form a solid mass appears to be the easier route.

I looked into their salinity tolerance and they appear to be pretty hardy, though I'm not sure how they handle pollution.

I have one more question: Worm rock grows at the water line and swell extends well above that line, will closing the gaps at sea level help or does it need to go higher?

-------------------------
Trump/Putin 2016!

Edited: 11/30/2017 at 08:16 PM by Cole
 11/30/2017 08:21 PM
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TheFirstPeakProject

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Originally posted by: Cole Nice with the worm rock. The carbon fiber seems like a waste of time, I imagine it's too hard for the worms to hold on to. Why not try some type of webbing? If you can get the worms to grow, getting them to form a solid mass appears to be the easier route. I have one more question: Worm rock grows at the water line and swell extends well above that line, will closing the gaps at sea level help or does it need to go higher?

Carbon Fiber is presently the GoTo material for piling restoration by the FDOT. In the video, the Neptune Research Institute NPI is installing Carbon Fiber on a piling in South Florida. NPI has pledged to donate all the carbon fiber we need to restore First Peak.

The first video was called the "Simplest Solution to Restore First Peak." In our next video you will see a webbing designed to maximize worm reef growth.  Great anticipation Cole!

We've posted a TON on this forum regarding the design parameters of the panels and their heights. We're not going to repost.  It's on the 2ndLight somewhere.



-------------------------

The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org

 11/30/2017 08:27 PM
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Cole

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I spent a lot of time on, under and next to that jetty when I was a kid and everything at 1st peak just seems wrong now.

I hope you are on the right track, I really do.

One thing will remain certain: It will still be impossible to pull fat snapper out of those stupid new pilings.

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Trump/Putin 2016!
 12/01/2017 08:04 PM
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Jonesey1

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I have been following the project loosely for a bit now and the engineers on it do seem incredible and definitely seem like experts.   

Great job on the video but maybe it would have been  a little clearer in the last two videos if details about the reflective surface composition  mentioned worm rock though

Question though Is there a concern for wave energy getting underneath the panels though if the worm doesnt take or takes too long? They definitely seem like the best quickly reversible way, although have 2.5 foot diameter suction anchors or caissons been considered so nothing has to attach the the pilings at all and coverage to the ground in between? Im sure you have that all covered just heard they are used residentially now, install in a day but not my profession at all. Probably make it too complicated.

One more point just wanted to know if it was modeled if turbulence in the navigation channel will be increased. 

Either way would like to support the project. Are any stickers available?

 12/02/2017 10:54 AM
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MyCatSprays

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A million Chef's, but aint one put a plate on the table but Jerm and Josh!!! How bout all you FIT grads and self proclaimed Meteorologist's pony up a $20 spot and STFU!!!



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 12/02/2017 03:15 PM
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pompano

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I revel at the inherent inability for a surfer that has reaped the benefits of this wave prior to the 2001 demise to pony up any contribution but contribute bad press and pessimism.  FPP, I will match donations from folks here that give that actually ponies up to a cumulative total of $1K. 

And if you think sand or the end of the jetty is part of the problem, I cannot begin to tell you how blind faith and an ignorance of engineering will leave you looking as stupid as waiting for a winning wave when the horn sounds.

 12/02/2017 03:50 PM
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Cole

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Pardon for asking, but how can sand not be a factor?

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Trump/Putin 2016!
 12/02/2017 04:08 PM
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pompano

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sand is grooming the quality of the wave.  You have to realize you need to fix the rebound first.  The FPP has talked about the fact of what happens when they could get a chance to fix the rebound that the sand will be impacted, but they cannot jump right in and dump sand.  There is NO way anyone know what the hell the sand should be. 

 

So, it as easy as fix the wave rebound, and then worry about the details.

 

[edit] to put it into surferspeak that most of the older surfers that have typical jobs will comprehend.  Do you tape and fill final paint or stucco before you put in the panels and tape and cover, or what?  Oh, I do all my finish work before I do the initial panel work, sand and paint.  yeah, I don't think so.

[edit] I have another analogy for the folks in the surfboard biz.  Imagine you have a board that was shaped and has both lams.  Thinking sand is the answer is like putting on your final pin stripes and gloss coat before you even do the fill coat and sand and do the fairing. You have to make it work first. then you can work on the finishing touches.



Edited: 12/02/2017 at 04:26 PM by pompano
 12/02/2017 07:39 PM
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Cole

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If it's five feet shallower where the wave focuses on the jetty, won't that screw the whole pooch?

I'm sure you remember the bowls next to the Canaveral Pier. Back in the 80's, the waves, even on giant days, broke at the end of the pier and the dynamic created a super fun wave. Today if it's got size the wave breaks 100 yards past the Tiki bar and the pier has little, if any, effect.

Can't the same happen at the north jetty?

To compensate, don't the panels have to extend well above and well below the impact zone?

-------------------------
Trump/Putin 2016!
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