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Created On: 10/19/2017 11:30 AM
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 10/19/2017 11:30 AM
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TheFirstPeakProject

Posts: 115
Joined: 01/12/2016

Alright, you’re killing me smalls.  All over social media and this forum, everyone keeps claiming sand, sand, sand is what ruined First Peak.  Then people suggest that we need to dredge the north side of the inlet to restore the wave.


Some members of our team at FPP have worked in beach nourishment for years.  We’ve literally LIVED onboard hopper dredges.  We want to share some perspective on sand and why dredging is the farthest thing from reality when it comes to restoring First Peak.


1.    Beach nourishment is a form of coastal protection geared towards reducing storm impacts. It’s not total coastal protection but it aims to mitigate storm damage as best it can. By dredging offshore of First Peak, you would be making the water deeper, allowing more wave energy to enter nearshore, and increase the shoreline’s susceptibility to storm damage.  This clearly violates State and Federal statutes.  How can we possibly suggest a remedy to fix First Peak that violates State and USACE policy?


2.    Ranking Criteria. The Army Corps and FDEP evaluate the coastline of Florida and identify critically eroded areas.  These eroded areas are prioritized and fall onto a waiting list for cycles of county, state, and congressional funding to be allocated to their area.  Sometimes it take 5 years or more for a critically area to be addressed. The mid-reach in Brevard County for example has been waiting almost 10 years for sand in some areas.  If First Peak was even to get on this list to be dredged (which is counterintuitive to point #1), we could be waiting a decade to do anything.


3.    Costs.  Regardless of points #1 and #2 above, we have gone through and made a quick assessment of a price tag to effectively dredge the north side of the jetty to make an impact.  We estimate about 100,000 CY needs to be removed to restore the north side to pre-1970's First Peak.  Keep in mind this is nearshore so it’s shallow water dredging, the most difficult type.  A decent guess would be $40/CY all in to pump this sand to the south side via subsea pipeline. Truck haul would cost about 50% more, if the equipment can even access the sand.  That means the project would cost $4,000,000.  Where is that $4,000,000 supposed to come from?  Our plan to restore reflection costs $180,000. How can we justify the $4 MIL over the $180K.  That’s like asking do you want to pay $3 per gal for gas or $66 per gal?


4.    Ephemeral effect.  Even if we got to point 3 we would have to deal with the temporal nature of dredging.  The north side of Sebastian Inlet is accretional meaning it naturally tends to fill up with sand.  That means our dredging efforts would almost certainly be eradicated and filled-in by the first nor’easter or storm event.  Kiss that $4 MIL goodbye. The First Peak Project is totally for dredging when dredging is the practical and logical answer.  Due to dredging’s temporal nature, it is not a sustainable solution to restore First Peak for the long term.


5.    Habitat. Ok, now we have gotten to the point that dredging to restore First Peak seems totally ridiculous; because it is. However, did you consider policy advocates for beach protection and habitat such as the Surfrider Foundation and the Sea Turtle Conservancy?  The First Peak Project has teamed up with Sea Turtle Conservancy and Surfrider Foundation to discuss policies that unify us and come to a solution to restore First Peak that works for all of our organizations.  While I am not an official spokesperson for said groups, the First Peak Project will not support any solution to restore first peak that is temporary or causes destruction to the shoreline.


6.    Wave Reflection. Now we drill down to the real meat and potatoes.  In 2001, the State of Florida released $40,000 to conduct a feasibility report to reduce impacts to First Peak.  Obviously, that feasibility study was a fallacy in that it did not make accurate assessments of the change in reflection.  However, this State Document solidifies the concept that First Peak is caused by wave reflection.  By the surf community claiming sand is responsible, you are in direct conflict with the state-of-the-art and documented research.  Therefore, to overturn this feasibility study and change the mechanics of First Peak from reflection to dredging, you’re going to have to come forward with some major credentials and data.  The precedent was set almost 20 years ago: According to state funded research, wave reflection creates First Peak.


This was an exhaustive essay just to describe something that is a total moot point.  Talking about sand regarding restoring First Peak is a total waste of time and energy.  A very high-ranking coastal official, who will remain nameless, even told us that if the community wants to restore First Peak, they better expel the word “sand” from their vocabulary.


Now can we all please get our heads out of the sand?



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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org



Edited: 10/20/2017 at 10:00 AM by TheFirstPeakProject
 10/19/2017 01:03 PM
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IMAKEWK

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i like u

 10/19/2017 01:56 PM
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stokedpanda

Posts: 2885
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what if they put up a pump house like at pump house, there is always a deep hole there.

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 10/19/2017 02:18 PM
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SurfCaster

Posts: 399
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True, reflection, not sand, is the problem. I'd like for my son to be able to enjoy surfing First Peak just as I did 30 yrs ago. As you know, this is not a trivial undertaking. What modeling or other work have you done to demonstrate you can recreate the necessary reflective properties of the old jetty? How will you account for the different shape and angle of the current jetty? Has this data been evaluated by other experts in the field? Finally, what assurances do you have from government agencies that you will be permitted to implement the necessary changes? I can only speak for myself that I am politely skeptical that FPP (1) is just an opportunistic money grab and (2) could actually make the surf at the Inlet worse (although his latter point may be inconsequential since the surf at the Inlet now is essentially the same as nearby breaks).

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 10/19/2017 02:25 PM
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TheFirstPeakProject

Posts: 115
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Originally posted by: SurfCaster Finally, what assurances do you have from government agencies that you will be permitted to implement the necessary changes? .

SurfCaster - Please reply to this recent thread and let us know what you think. Cheers.

First Peak Open Invitation



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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org

 10/19/2017 02:56 PM
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TheFirstPeakProject

Posts: 115
Joined: 01/12/2016

Originally posted by: stokedpanda what if they put up a pump house like at pump house, there is always a deep hole there.

 

Stoked Panda - A pumphouse is just another form of dredging and the deep hole will be in front of the pumphouse...near the shoreline.  No chance to improve reflection or create a long ride. 

Plus, the pumphouse built for Boyton Inlet in 2010-2012 had a price tag of $24 MIL. Let's be real.  Where's that money going to come from?

Now, one thing pumphouses are good for (in terms of improving surf) are the southside breaks of inlets.  Think about Reef Road and outside Boynton Inlet. When they pump sand to the southside, the sand fills in and creates kind-of a point break.  The same thing happens when Austrialia pumps sand from D-bah to Snappers.  The result is super.  So a pumphouse at Sebastian Inlet wouldn't do anything for First Peak, but Monster Hole could line up from up-top to jungle trail. Yew.



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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org

 10/19/2017 03:33 PM
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grdsurf

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I can't help but comment...probably against my better judgement. I think what you are trying to do is great and I hope you succeed, it's a very interesting project. I agree that sand is not the only factor in quality first peak, but it was a major factor in it's former state. I've commented several times before due to my interest in your project so let me apologize ahead of time for repeating myself and being a nuisance in general. Based on decades of surfing first peak in every condition imaginable sand was absolutely critical to it breaking properly...even in the "old" days when it was "good". The reflection was always there regardless of what state the sand was in. the problem was when there was a lot of sand it caused the preceding wave to contact the jetty at to tight of an angle with in turn made the reflecting wave come off of the jetty at to tight of an angle, this caused what we use to call "over wedging". When it "over wedged" it was almost useless. Regardless of the sand state northerly swells usually sucked due the angle,approach to the jetty...again that angle thingy(swell interval was a factor to). Generally the sand was best at the end of the summer and worst at the end of the winter after it had accumulated from all the northerly activity. But....that was then and the jetty was different...there was no "T" at the end(this is plainly detrimental), the new pilings angle and lack of worm rock absorbs instead of reflects(the issue that you are working on) and lastly Monster Hole is much further out and shallower. So....getting the jetty to bounce wave energy instead of absorb it is one of the keys to restoring first peak...but...that's just one of several key factors. if you can restore the bounce with a good angle that would go a long way toward success.
 10/19/2017 06:43 PM
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pompano

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Having surfed it in pre-piling reinforcement and post, it is obvious to anyone that has solved one differential equation on wave motion that the pilings wrecked the reflected wave.  So, that accounts for probably less than 1% of the people that post here.  Sand does have a subtle effect on the wave that varies with tidal range, but regardless of where the sand is, it truly is the reflection that grooms and creates the wave people want.  If you attended any of the First peak project's info sessions, they showed the latest non-linear models (so much better than what I used 20 years ago) that give extremely high confidence of restoring the wave.  Sand is a second order effect that only increases the initial stoke once the reflection can return. If you have any doubts, questions, or do not understand non-linear equations, and are serious about restoring the wave, it is well worth your time to actually try to understand the situation and talk to the first peak folks. The T on the jetty is so physically small compared to a wave period it is literally in the noise.  As I tell my surf buddy, you can only take blind faith or a million independent surf sessions in different conditions so far until you have to actually prove something.  

 10/20/2017 05:30 AM
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TheFirstPeakProject

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Originally posted by: grdsurfSo....getting the jetty to bounce wave energy instead of absorb it is one of the keys to restoring first peak...but...that's just one of several key factors. if you can restore the bounce with a good angle that would go a long way toward success.


grdsurf – You are completely correct.  You also bring up a very good point. We failed to make an important distinction regarding sand and the wedge.
We 100% agree with you that the sand does effect characteristics of First Peak in many ways.  Sand effects the length of ride. It also effects the water depth along the jetty which in turn effects where the reflection will occur given a certain wave height and water depth.


And, sand is always changing! Some days the sand will be crap and the wave won’t be so good and some days the sand will help make the wave epic.  This is all due to the natural variability of the system.


However, we can’t control this.  Sand is going to do what sand is going to do.  And as we outlined in the post above, it is nearly impossible to do anything about it from a legal and political standpoint.


So, while we agree with you that the sand does change the wave, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse, it’s something that we can do nothing about and therefore do not need to dump any time or energy into it.


Remember, we have to follow very strict permitting guidelines and this can NOT be a dredging project!  Thanks for the comment.



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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org

 10/20/2017 05:41 AM
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TheFirstPeakProject

Posts: 115
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Originally posted by: SurfCaster I am politely skeptical that FPP (1) is just an opportunistic money grab and (2) could actually make the surf at the Inlet worse (although his latter point may be inconsequential since the surf at the Inlet now is essentially the same as nearby breaks).



SurfCaster - The First Peak Project is a 501c3 non-profit and is also paypal verified. You can verify both of these on the web.  We've also invited anyone on here to meet with us and see for themselves that this is a very real project.  If you PM us we can give you contacts in government to contact to verifiy that we are having these conversations.  This is real man. If anyone wants to put on some khakis and a polo shirt and join us for the next government meeting or assembly where we'll talk about First Peak, come'on!

In terms of making the inlet break worse...Honestly, I don't know if that is possible. It's terrible down there.  Waves don't even break near the jetty anymore. Plus, making the wave break worse would be very irresponsible wouldn't it?  It takes a very focused and professional team to apply for a coastal permit and there is no one on the FPP team who is willing to risk their career or reputation by making a wave worse.  That is not an option.

Thank you for your comments regarding your son.  We feel the same way.  We're not restoring First Peak for us, and we're definitely not rstoring first peak for the old school locals who won't support the project. It's so sad to meet 18 year old surfers who have absolutely no idea about First Peak and how good it was and what it meant for the community here.  We think it is extremely selfish for anyone to think that restoring First Peak is for themselves or for some grumpy old men.  We need to bring back FP for our children and the future, and thank you for supporting us on this point.



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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org



Edited: 10/20/2017 at 05:47 AM by TheFirstPeakProject
 10/20/2017 05:55 AM
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TheFirstPeakProject

Posts: 115
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Originally posted by: pompano If you have any doubts, questions, or do not understand non-linear equations, and are serious about restoring the wave, it is well worth your time to actually try to understand the situation and talk to the first peak folks.

Pompano - Thank you for backing us up. We've tried so hard to hold these public events and show blueprints and computer models to people.  And we agree with you, this stuff is complicated but we have some of the world's best numerical modelers on our team and we will be sharing more soon.


Keep helping us get the word out there.  We need more positive public support behind this project.

Cheers!



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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org



Edited: 10/20/2017 at 09:04 AM by TheFirstPeakProject
 10/21/2017 09:40 AM
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Cole

Posts: 32165
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Originally posted by: pompano

Having surfed it in pre-piling reinforcement and post, it is obvious to anyone that has solved one differential equation on wave motion that the pilings wrecked the reflected wave.  So, that accounts for probably less than 1% of the people that post here.  Sand does have a subtle effect on the wave that varies with tidal range, but regardless of where the sand is, it truly is the reflection that grooms and creates the wave people want.  If you attended any of the First peak project's info sessions, they showed the latest non-linear models (so much better than what I used 20 years ago) that give extremely high confidence of restoring the wave.  Sand is a second order effect that only increases the initial stoke once the reflection can return. If you have any doubts, questions, or do not understand non-linear equations, and are serious about restoring the wave, it is well worth your time to actually try to understand the situation and talk to the first peak folks. The T on the jetty is so physically small compared to a wave period it is literally in the noise.  As I tell my surf buddy, you can only take blind faith or a million independent surf sessions in different conditions so far until you have to actually prove something.  


I was told the wave would bounce off of the concrete foundation at the bottom of the original jetty. You have been around long enough to know that the base isn't concrete, it's rocks and a good part of the wave would pass through the jetty and into the inlet.

My problem with the restoration isn't sand, it's the base principle that they have built their models on.

If you aren't sure what created the original wave, how can you recreate it?



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 10/21/2017 02:52 PM
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Captain Obvious

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I feel for you guys trying to herd these cats.

Cudos to you for trying to actually do something about the one thing EVERYONE bitches about.

I'm old enough to have surfed the inlet when it was good, and even back then it only had a true first peak when the bounce was really happening. South swell, no bounce. SE swell, no bounce. Some days - unreal.

So my request is you drill strategic holes in the panels so they play a song when the waves hit - like the Sea Organ in Croatia. I'm thinking Despacito.




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 10/21/2017 02:56 PM
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TheFirstPeakProject

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Originally posted by: Cole
You have been around long enough to know that the base isn't concrete, it's rocks and a good part of the wave would pass through the jetty and into the inlet. My problem with the restoration isn't sand, it's the base principle that they have built their models on. If you aren't sure what created the original wave, how can you recreate it?


Cole - We clearly state in our first peak video that the reflective surface was once made of rocks, pilings and marine growth.  We know this from going under the jetty and taking pictures.  We don't understand why the material composition regarding the base of the north jetty is still a topic of discussion?

We are 100% dead certain that First Peak was made from reflected waves. First Peak was what surfers call a "wedge wave." The principal of a wedge wave (aka side wave or reflected wave) is similar to Newport Wedge, CA, Caldera Costa Rica, and Rancho Santana, Nicaragua.  There's even a wedge wave in the Caribbean that has gotten a lot of attention lately.  See image 20 by Laserwolf (and read the caption) or watch the movie Pedro's Bay to see some wedge waves in action.

If you're still not convinced that reflection once caused First Peak, there's state funded research that confirms that reflection is the key. Let me introduce you to the 2001 feasibility study that was supposed to prevent the destruction of First Peak.  When you watch the Surfer Film on First Peak, you hear Kech talk about a "feasibility study" at time 3:40.  Here is a link to the feasibility study here: 2001 feasibility study

Here's the deal with this "feasibility study".  Back in 2001, due to surfer's concerns, the State paid $40,000 to have this study commissioned.  This study states the word "reflection" over 50 times and exhaustively explains how reflection is responsible for creating First Peak.  To reiterate, this is state funded research that describes the reflection effect and this study sets a strong precedent.  Therefore, the only thing the community can do to restore First Peak, is to re-evaluate this study and try and correct this study's fallacies. 

Remember, in 2001 technology was a lot different.  Today, we can go back and prove that this 2001 feasibility study was incorrect and make the appropriate adjustments to restore First Peak. However, to get the state to do anything, surfers have to want to do this!  Public demand is key!!!



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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org



Edited: 10/21/2017 at 03:05 PM by TheFirstPeakProject
 10/21/2017 05:16 PM
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dropsolo

Posts: 1796
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I'm sold. Make the wave reflect and the wedge will return. It's not like Sebastian inlet is the only "wedge" on the planet. I've surfed a few others and one in particular had a ton of sand build up. The wave still reflected off the jetty and did its thing. Don't need to understand non linear equations and dork talk to understand that.

Besides the point, the inlet sucks now and has for a while. Anything to hopefully improve it is worth it IMO. Spanny will still be there either way

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 10/21/2017 05:38 PM
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Cole

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If this is an honest effort for the wave, I'm all for it.

If it's a low percentage payout non-profit/charity, I am not.

But here is what I am referring to: Sebastian Inlet too has a solid impermeable core that has a very low freeboard, typically submerged at high tide. This solid core is what used to cause the reflections back in the day before the outer pilings were installed along the crib structure.

http://www.2ndlight.com/fuseta...165197&highlight_key=y

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 10/21/2017 07:12 PM
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TheFirstPeakProject

Posts: 115
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Originally posted by: Cole But here is what I am referring to: Sebastian Inlet too

Cole - Since the jetty was first cut open in the 1920s there's been tons of construction and additions.  One of the biggest changes ever happened to First Peak in 1970 when the "pier" structure was built. Sometimes it gets caught in the cross-fire regarding what "era" of First Peak we're talking about.

When you talk to the guys who surfed First Peak back in the 50's and 60's it was unlike anything any of us can ever imagine.  The waves would reflect some a solid core.  Then in 1970 when the pier construction began, rocks were placed in front of the wall which killed the orginal First Peak.

Then the "mid-era" First Peak was from 1970 to 2000.  This is the First Peak that would go pop-pop-pop as waves would run along the base.  This reflective surface was made of concrete pilings, rocks, and marine growth (primarily worm reef).

We will never be able to restore the original First Peak from before the 1970s. That would require dredging and a massie amount of huge rocks to be moved.  But can you imagine? That would be the sickest wedge anyone has ever seen. The O.G. guys are right...we'll never know.

We can restore the First Peak that existed from 1970 to 2000 by improving the reflective surface along the base of the "pier".

We made a quick image to show you.  Let us know if this image helps clear things up.  We know a lot of guys from the old school that help us keep our story straight.

PS... This isn't some quick payout. Stop being so imaginative like this is some scheme or something. We're trying to bring First Peak back and we're not going to stop until that permit application is on the desk in Tallahassee.



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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary surfing wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former fame and glory.


www.firstpeak.org



Edited: 10/21/2017 at 07:18 PM by TheFirstPeakProject
 10/22/2017 08:37 AM
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chopola

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Don't take me the wrong way, I'm all for bringing back an great wave, but. It seems the "improvements" made in the last restoration were successful in sustaining the structural integrity of the jetty. The new piles absorbs some of the wave energy and the old structure absorbs the rest. Good luck convincing them to let you do something that is going to take away from that fact.
 10/22/2017 09:21 AM
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rc

Posts: 899
Joined: 01/02/2006

Let's face it, Ke11y is arguably the most successful non-team sport athlete this earth has ever known, and number 58 in the world, journeyman golfer makes more than him.
The world could care less about First Peak.

It only matters to a very small segment of the populace.

I think that is what chopola and co. are reiterating.

Furthermore, stopping damaging wave action is a recent key topic regarding the Cocoa Utilities.

Fla Today Article

Good luck, and many thanks for trying. E for effort!
 10/22/2017 03:41 PM
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Cole

Posts: 32165
Joined: 07/22/2003

I'm all for you bringing it back - thought rc is right, in it's heyday there were only about ten people that caught waves, the rest were relegated to over wedged chunks down the beach. I'm just making sure you understand the original.


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Trump/Putin 2016!

Edited: 10/22/2017 at 03:48 PM by Cole
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