Don't know if this has been on here yet, but found the link on surfline , seems like a great cause to get behind, for what a minimal wave the inlets become over the years......

check it...  http://www.firstpeak.org/reflection.html

I dont understand a single thing about that site or video. not a single thing.

I realize you are being serious and I agree, but that is one of the funniest responses I've seen in years!



-------------------------
I was right.

But for a $100.00 "donation" to whatever in the hell this is all about ..... you get a T shirt!!

-------------------------
"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

I understand the basic concept of what they want to do but It hasn't been well thought out.  wave refraction sounds great but it may not creat a viable surfing wave.  in fact it could creat conditions that would ruin any ridable surf around the pier.  Another glairing problem is the "refracting panels" would put a lot of stress on the pilings.  They also do not go all the way to to the Bottom.  Waves are energy moving through the medium of water. The sea bed is the bottom of the wave. Most of the wves energy will simply slip under the refacting panles little if any will be returned.   

If someone wants to spend the money on creating a surfing wave they should be looking at how to shape the sea bed in a manner that allows for waves to peel .  a great many mad made jetties have by accident shaped the sea bed and created a better wave for sufing. Somthing like combining a rock jetty and peir might have the desired effect. Of couse the number one thing to consider is how will this effect the beach and enviroment in the long term.  

Surfrider made an attempt to creat a wave in the LA area and it was a multi million dollar mistake.  Any marine engineering must be carefully concidered. 

 

Is this like the In & Out waves in Tahiti from Endless Summer?

-------------------------
"Surfing is like pizza. Even when it's bad, it's still pretty good." - I said that

Help preserve our oceans for generations to come. surfrider.org

First peak stopped working when they expanded the jetty... Someone should inform her that she's mistaken.

-------------------------
Captains Richard & Gina

 If they wanted to use a model for the wave.  The Wedge in Newport Beach CA It is also a mutant wave created by refraction. 

nearly 40 years ago in Jensen Beach at the power plant sea water intake was a corregated steel jetty that the piping was laid below. It had very nice refractive wave and being solid, blocked the wind from what ever direction it was blowing, itw removed after the intake was completed, the site of my first sting ray hit

I did a casual, almost ernest, search for pictures of the "old" south jetty set-up, with no luck. A lot of the "younger" folks take the "changed over time" statements as being in reference to their own lifetimes, not the past 40+ years that us "old timers" reference.

I remember some "old days", with particular swells, where the set-up/line-up was right next to the jetty; where-in you'd have to just about push off of the rocks with your feet in order to not get crunched.



-------------------------
Dora Hates You

shapewright, still miss the "The Metal Jetty" broke good on both sides, depending on swell or windswell direction and wind! We used to camp out there.

-------------------------
Life is a garden*Dig it!

Edited: 04/25/2015 at 04:40 AM by Lounge-A-Rama

Marty Smetanka at the "Metal Jetty" mid 70's [IMG][/IMG][IMG]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201029828134308&set=o.50649093639[/IMG]

-------------------------
Life is a garden*Dig it!

Lounge .... the image is not showing because it is not in jpg format

-------------------------
"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

Refraction and Reflection are two completely different things. Wave Refraction is a gravity phenomenon that always takes place.  It's caused by differential shoaling across the wave crest as a single wave crest transforms over a variable seafloor.  This is why beach breaks are different from point breaks.

Reflection is caused when waves interact with a structure such as a jetty, cliff or seawall. The reflected wave energy combines with other incoming waves in the wave train and can cause dramatic things to happen.  First Peak was best in the 1970's and 1980's when the waves would reflect from the solid jetty (now still present but surronded by sand).  The jetty of the 2000's to today was/is more of a "pier" and lets too much wave energy permeate through not allowing reflection.

Some examples of famous reflecting waves are Newport Wedge in California, Caldera in Puntaraenas Costa Rica and Rancho Santana in Nicaragua, the former being man-made.

Advanced sediment transport models used by mega-firm coastal engineering firms to build ports and harbors and manage sediment transport, including beach nourishment projects, have indicated that increased reflection from the jetty helps impact sand in an oblique fillet along the north jetty.  This is a positive feedback loop in by which over time, the restored peak and modified wave action from reflection would help to groom the bottom to represent something more of a point break, making the wave break much longer than it does today.

A reflective panel pilot project would cost on the order of $100,000 with 100% contigency meaning the pilot project could be removed if not effective.  Artifical surfing reefs, to be effective, cost over $5,000,000 and the contigency is generally 5 times the cost of installation for offshore subaqueous coastal development projects.  The former alternative would be equivalent to selling 1,000 T-shirts at $100 a piece versus selling 50,000 and 250,000 units respectively.  Nobody said anyone had to buy one.

-------------------------

The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

I have an aireal view of the 'old' Jetty and inlet from back in the day.

The old Jetty allowed sand to move through it north to south into the inlet on the other side.

The channel from the aireal photo is right next to the south jetty and there is a bank of sand on the south side of the north Jetty.

I think they must have rebuilt the jetty so that sand would not build up in the channel.

BUT... now they spend Millions every year pumping sand from somewherelse to replenish the beaches south of the inlet.

Why not fix the Jetty, let the sand back through it, and spend the same money clearing the channel and pump that sand down south?

 

-------------------------

Jetties are made so water can pass through, which lessens impact. Wouldn't a reflective panel exponentially increase the load on the jetty itself?



-------------------------
I was right.

 

Science! 

Smart man.

-------------------------
save save save travel surf

Jetties are typically not made so water can pass through them, those types of structures are called "piers".  Jetties are constructed with various semi-permebale to impermeable layers (outside to inside) of armor stone, substrate and/or sheet pile to dissipate initial wave forces but then withstand hurricane force winds, waves, and currents.  Fort Pierce, Boyton Inlet, Palm Beach Inlet, Ponce Inlet and nearly everyone other jetty in Florida as a solid impermeable core.  Sebastian Inlet too has a solid impermeable core that has a very low freeboard, typically submerged at high tide.  This solid core is what used to cause the reflections back in the day before the outer pilings were installed along the crib structure.  We at the First Peak Project do not condone nor suggest it but the interior core of north jetty at Sebastian Inlet is walkable durfing low tides.  Take a look at it next time you paddle out there.  

The reflective panels would have a very low relief only being about three to four feet high and placed at the base of the jetty being about centered vertically on static water level or mean sea level (depending on your preferred frame of reference).  During medium to high tides they would be completely submerged.  Therefore, the largest wave that could resolve any forces on the panels would then be a four foot wave.  Impact loads from four foot waves range in the 10^3 kPa range.  The jetty and pier structure is designed to be overtopped by waves greater than 15 feet during hurriance conditions, and which the jetty has survived many times over the past decade. During hurricane and winter storm conditions, storm surges range from 4 to 24 feet meaning the reflective panels would be safely underwater. The structurally reinforced concrete piles at Sebastian Inlet are capable of impact loads greater than Mega-pascals. In other words, the jetty wouldn't even know that reflective panels were there, it wouldn't feel them in a million-billion years.

 

 

-------------------------

The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 08/25/2016 at 03:44 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

Core?

I used to walk the rocks under the jetty at low tide on flat days to get hooks and lures back in the 70's. There was no core, it if was there, it was under the rocks and well below the waterline. The concrete under the first third of the current jetty is the old jetty; the new one was built on top.

And if you don't mind, I have a few more questions.

1) If the reflector is submerged at mid tide, what happens to the wave form?

2) When wave get larger, they break farther out; the 1:7 deal. You say no wave over four feet will impact it, but what happens when the larger swells break before they reach the jetty? This is nature, there are no real rules.

3) What material do you plan on using?



-------------------------
I was right.

Cole. Unfortunately things have changed since the 1970s.  We'd love to go back and surf it back then. You had the wedge in the good days.

Nowadays there's a core. We're launching the new website in a couple weeks.  We'll post some pictures for you. We've walked almost to the end of the jetty underneath. Either one of us is seriously on some good acid or godzilla ate all the rocks under the jetty.

The material we plan on using is something called Phragmatopoma caudata. Google it.

 

-------------------------

The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org