http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com...DVnZTuvk77w9lm16DFWnL/

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

The obvious answer is to stay the fuck off the street and not intentionally block traffic. When you run into the middle of busy traffic to make a human chain, you aren't protesting... you are just being an asshole. People are trying to go home, pick up children, get to work, go grocery shopping, visit someone in the hospital, etc.

Doesn't the basis of the stand your ground law include your presence in a place you are legally allowed to be?
And does blocking traffic meet that criteria?

Even the liberal application of "stand your ground" as a justification for the application of lethal force against another requires that they have posed a mortal threat.

As "stand your ground" is written now it does not give cover to kill people that are inconveniencing you or making you angry by their law breaking.

So there is a paradox. If somebody is breaking the law by blocking traffic, parking on a sidewalk, watering their lawn every day, playing music too loudly at 2AM, and you Joe Public go after them in a threatening manner, what happens if they defend themselves from your threat?

They may have been breaking a law but they were not threatening you. You are not a law man, you have no legal ground to bother them beyond asking them to stop. If you forcefully intervene then you are also breaking the law and a conflict arises in which both parties are breaking the law in a prelude to lethal force.

-------------------------
...

Clearly a breakdown in lib families in action, parents teach their children not to play in street, progs apparently don't

I went to extremely conservative WASP private schools. Reagan won a unanimous victory over Mondale in our mock election.

We were taught that two wrongs don't make a right. Just because somebody else is breaking a law and doing you wrong doesn't mean that you have an automatic right to escalate the situation beyond a reasonable defense of life and property. We were taught respect for law, order, and civility. That seems to be something lacking on the BLM and Cliven Bundy ends of the polical spectrum.

 

-------------------------
...

I've been to several of the recent Trump 2020 campaign rally/ego boost tour protests.

I saw plenty of those bussed in from elsewhere Trumpists walking into the street and blocking traffic, needed to be repeatedly ushered back by the cops.
Meanwhile, the grassroots organized protesters generally had much better manners, stayed in their designated areas and cooperated well with the police.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

No...blocking traffic meets the criteria of J walking.

-------------------------
The REAL truth is....both of the forum idiots are OWNED.
-BOTH of them have no clue who their owner is.
-They are both card carrying narcissists.
^These are PROVED facts.

Except you aren't allowed to legally be in the middle of the street blocking traffic. As someone that has been on the receiving end of a charge for doing exactly when I was young, I know.

This is the Florida statute covering it.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Sta...ections/0316.2045.html

But a person that is not a law officer is not legally authorized to forcefully remove you from the street.

Are you not allowed to defend yourself if someone that is not legally authorized to do so threatens you with grave bodily harm?

-------------------------
...

Depending on your circumstances, if you have a true urgency that requires you to continue, the "defense of necessity" would likely apply.
http://www.jeffweiner.com/necessity-defense-in-florida/

The issue with protesters blocking traffic is that they don't know (or care) if the vehicles confronting them are just trying to get out the way of a true emergency behind them.

For that reason, I believe the punishment for doing so should be extremely severe.

As a side note, a friend of mine pulled a gun when a truck was driving behind him in a threatening manner, as if he were about to run my friend's car off the road.

This happened in NJ. Truck driver immediately backed off and called police. My friend was charged, and then found not guilty for pulling the gun, because the 7000-lb truck presented a legitimate threat to his life (and that of his pregnant sister).

It seems like common sense to figure out who the guilty party is in such a situation.

When someone is blocking traffic, they have a very obvious option to not getting hit by a car -- get the F back out of the road.

If a protester goes into the street emboldened because he has a gun, well, then you have your basic George Zimmerman mentality.

If you run out into the middle of busy traffic like you see these idiots doing, aren't you also endangering the lives of the drivers who may get in an accident trying to avoid you? Is it on me as a driver on a busy street to swerve to avoid you and risk my life because you are a fucking idiot and ran out in front of me?

Let's say you roll up to one of these moron chains that is mostly establish and inform them that you don't want to hurt anyone, but they are impeding the roadway and that you are going to creep through them with you car and that they should get out of the way... then they don't and slowly get ran over like that Austin Powers scene with the steam roller.


Like I said, the answer is simple. Stay the fuck off the busy streets, you aren't protesting... you are being an asshole. You aren't advancing any causes by doing this shit and in fact you are hurting the very cause you are trying to champion. You won't be taken seriously and your cause will just get lumped in with idiocy.

The question is not whether or not you approve of the form of protest. The question was whether or not the disapproval should result in a justifiable escalation of violence to lethal force.

Try calling the cops first.

Stand your ground as a valid defense of lethal self defense is meaningless if it is cover to escalate things with dumbasses that are pissing you off.

-------------------------
...

LOL at the austin powers reference!

-------------------------
I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

As the law exists, if you shoot somebody during a public confrontation and claim you should have immunity from prosecution under the state’s self-defense law, you can ask for a pre-trial hearing.

In that hearing, you must present evidence to show why you acted in self-defense. But the new bill under consideration shifts the burden in these pre-trial hearings from the shooter to the prosecutor.

It would presume that shooters have acted in self-defense unless the prosecutor can “prove beyond a reasonable doubt” in a pre-trial hearing that the shooting is not protected by the state’s Stand Your Ground law.

 

 

Isn't this law a direct consequesce of the George Zimmermna lynching, where a man standing his ground was put in jail for a year because he was 'white' and the press convicted him and swayed the zombies in the court of public opinion forcing guvment officials to deny his rights and try to convict him of murder?

This law is backlash against the Liberal assumption that use of a gun denotes criminal offense. This law is in place to protect people FROM Liberal policies...

As far as the new law, again the intent of the law is to protect people from Liberal actions. If somebody chooses to perform an action that causes an accident, they and not the other party in the accident are liable.

 

-------------------------

That's clearly not the consensus on Zimmerman. But if you are going to make new laws to address new wrongs, and your basic premise is that more guns in more hands is a legislative imperative, this is what you get. It's not a good solution to a bad problem. But if the GOP house and senate of Florida want to keep immunizing armed conflicts, they will encourage them.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

Can I knock people out of the fast lane on 95 for going too slow?

-------------------------
I was right.

Mowing down a peaceably assembled group is a forcible felony. W

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

Human chains across roads are a little different than a peaceful protest. One group is exercising their rights... the other group are just assholes.

If it were legal to kill assholes, then there would be a LOT less people in Congress...

-------------------------
GOP:

Gaslight
Obstruct
Project

If things like this start happening you can be sure there will be fewer pink hats and more black bandanas.

But the real purpose of the law is to discourage protest. ACLU will be engaging these efforts to chill the right of assembly.

-------------------------
“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

If the purpose of the law is to keep protesters off the street, then I fully support it.

If you have a legal right to pass through in traffic, and they don't have a legal right to block your car, then you are in the right.

If they won't move, and you have a legit emergency, then there is no question running them over is OK, as long as you start slow.

If they have an opportunity to move and don't, it's their own fault, their own stupidity, and their own problem.

If you try to move slowly, and they become violent to the point of breaking your windows, lifting your car to overturn it, or in some way assaulting you, then you get to run them over to save your own life from a beating.

If they are doing this to you because they think they are standing their ground, they have to go back to square 1 and remember you have a legal right to be there, and they don't.

Pretty simple in most cases. A full-speed plow-down is a whole different story.

"Peaceable" assembly is not violent. Assembly in the road without a permit is not legal.

^^^^This right here, its logic, and correct.^^^^^

But then you have this progtard mentality:

and this progtard mentality:

That completely distorts and glosses over key points of said logic, to somehow disprove it and prevent any, well.....logical discussion on it.

Pretty much sums up how progtards are ruining any chance at true "progress" in this country.

 

If you don't like what people are doing you can kill them for it? By any means you see fit?

When did protesting become a capital offense?

Jesus says ram the fckers!!

Gotta love these "Christian" Republicans in congress.

-------------------------
I was right.

Deliberately running into people protesting should be a last resort, not first. Shooting the driver of a vehicle ramming pedestrians will be the first and only response if this law gets passed. I would never tell someone where or how they should protest but if a large crowd of protesters decide to chain themselves across I 95, they are Darwin awards. If a large crowd of protesters spills out into a street and someone decides it's easier to go through them than around, he will probably be a Darwin Award too. These laws will produce lots of awards and each one will have a corpse and a trial. Encouraging that is not an answer.

-------------------------

"One of the reasons why propaganda tries to get you to hate government is because it's the one existing institution in which people can participate to some extent and constrain tyrannical unaccountable power." Noam Chomsky.

Rather than useless street shouting and sign waving folks: attend city, county, state, federal meetings. Be polite and focused, it's profoundly more effective.
Join like minded citizens groups. Write letters, emails, make phone calls. VOTE! Join political action committees, donate time and money
Leaping around shouting at chumpf as he drives by, making yourself a target for a chumpf dirt to attempt to mow you will accomplish grand total zero, and actually creates negative publicity. Time to focus and do whats effective, America.
A great songwriter wrote about the '60's protests:
"What a field day for the heat. Thousand people in the street. Singing songs and carrying signs.
Mostly say 'hooray for our side'...." S. Stills
Again, if you want to be serious about making a change y'all: focus, and participate in the system. It can, and will, actually make a difference

-------------------------
It's a democratic hoax

If you want to actually have real change, then everyone needs to stop putting R's and D's in power.

Bernie is an I, would you have voted for him?

-------------------------
I was right.

He ran as a D. If he had run as an I for president I would have voted for him over Johnson.

actually slowly running into people because they won't move is a good way to get sued and to be arrested for assault.

If somebody stands in front of your car and you slowly, knowingly drive into them, you will be sued, it is assault.

If you are in fear of your life, then this law protects you, It seems the legislators are putting the burden of proof whether you are justifiably in fear of your life on the protestors.

If you are driving at speed and a group of people run out and jump in front of your car, then you are protected by existing laws and common sense police officers.

If you are in an emergency situation and you slow but continue through, I believe you are also protected by existing laws.

What I would fear from this is if Union workers are protesting legitimately in front of a plant or factory and they get plowed over by people going to work through the picket lines. Unions have a right to protest, people have a right to go to work, people do not get to run somebody over in order to get to work AND Union workers do NOT get to assault workers or damage the vehicles of people trying to go to work.

 

 

-------------------------

First, there’s the Senate bill that encourages drivers to plow through protesters. The bill (SB1096) might as well be called The Kill The Protesters Bill.

Sounds like a winner to me.

-------------------------
I :heart; Q

There's guy always parks on the sidewalk.

Can I go hook a chain to his truck and yank it out of the way?

Or do I call code enforcement?

Seems motorist is being violated by the obstruction of traffic but motorist wouldn't be in the right to take the law into his own hands and threaten bodily harm to the crowd blocking the street. (extenuating circumstance of grave emergency excepted).

It is the world's dumbest form of protest but unless the law is changed to give citizens authorization to enforce a law then I think it best for the motorist to stand down until the cops show up.

-------------------------
...

So if someone is going 60 in the left lane with Trump stickers on the window, I can open fire, right?



-------------------------
“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Yes you can. If caught, you will have a serious felony charge brought against you, however.

Sure, see above.

-------------------------
I :heart; Q

Darn. Ok I'll just use the Stinkeye.

-------------------------
“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

If you want to deny someone access to a place they have a legal right to be, then you have to accept blocking Rosa Parks from a seat on the bus, blocking transgender folks from a bathroom, blocking abortion patients from a clinic, and so on. Maybe even block them from voting? There is zero place for it, and zero right to do it.

If you can't move for a car going 5 mph, then you are simply beyond Darwin Awards.


Edited: 03/20/2017 at 09:18 AM by RegularJoe

You would have voted for Bernie, even though he is "far left" on Muslim immigration?


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Absolutely. You are never going to 100% agree with any candidate unless you are a party line moron.

It just seems like this is the one you care about so much, that it was the reason you didn't help resist Trump.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Again, I don't vote against candidates. I vote *FOR* them. Voting *against* candidate along with the belief that there are only two viable parties is the bulk of the reason behind what is wrong with this country now.

I am not going to vote for Clinton just because I think Trump is a psycho, when Johnson was the candidate most inline with what I believe. Surely you can't believe he would have done a worse job than Trump is going now?


Edit: The only reason you think it is the issue I care most about is because it is a hot topic issue on these boards and I disagree with you on it.

Gary Johnson took the "who I side with" online quiz, and after himself, his second-closest match was Bernie.

Speaking of being denied access to a place you are legally allowed to be, I saw a shorter vision of this vid on FB over the weekend (disclaimer: I haven't watched this longer, non-FB one all the way through yet).

vid linkage

It's about women being given the stinkeye and cold shoulder for entering many of the cafes in certain Muslin-heavy suburbs of Paris.

I don't know if Dearborn, MI or other similar areas in the US could ever get that bad, but it provides impetus to consider: Is the encouragement or facilitation of Muslim immigration to the US an act of shooting oneself in the foot with regards to women's and LGBT rights?

Note: If you look up Keith Ellison's voting record on these issues, you can see that not all Muslims think the same. But he was also raised in the US.

No, just the opposite. The more Muslim women and gay men live here, see how a culture that respects them works, the more there will be demand for more of such liberalism in Islam.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Stinkeye in Paris? I think that's routine.



-------------------------
“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

WG	OK, but Trump IS a Psycho, and Clinton was the only real chance to stop him.

 

1/2 right but 50% is a fail

Trump is a psycho and ANYBODY BUT CLINTON could have stopped him.

Clinton is the only reason Trump won.

The worse Candidate since David Duke and he still beats Clinton.

You should have run somebody else... ANY-BODY else...

 

 

-------------------------

Probably not. If they are relegated to the ghettos like in France then those ghettos might fester. Somalis in the midwest have had some issues.

But the numbers that come here aren't as large relative to the population as the decades long migration to France from the colonies. France shoots itself in the foot ostracizing them.

The one's here get 'westernized' pretty fast with some exceptions I'm sure. I have a friend in Miami that is a real estate attorney. Her parents are from Pakistan. Very secular family, more conservative but less religious and more secular than the majority of modern Republican voters. They are all business and academics. Their kids all have advanced degrees and careers, both sexes. Think Asian Tiger Mom stereotype.

 

-------------------------
...

OK, but Trump IS a Psycho, and Clinton was the only real chance to stop him.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Sounds like a problem with your party for putting up a candidate that lost. Maybe if all those Bernie supporters showed up at the primaries, we wouldnt be having this discussion now.

I was a big Bernie supporter and did vote for him in the Primary, but am still not sure he would have won in the general.

If it is so, then this election really was all about the bullshit non-scandals and the misogyny.



-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

He would not have won. He would have lost by a far greater margin. A foolish old communist wouldn't have stood a chance. And what that tells us is that dems have no one on their bench. We remain loaded.

-------------------------
I :heart; Q

You think misogyny is why Clinton lost? Wow. Had nothing to do with her being a woman for the vast majority.

This election was the death spasm of white privilege in the US.

They will gasp, rattle, convulse... but the final outcome is inevitable.

I wonder how bad Pence will be.

-------------------------
“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

The way this post derailed the thread makes it look like Rusty was on point.

Several in this thread have in turn argued that white privilege is dead these days and they don't seem to be very pleased about it they way they rail against things like affirmative action and such.

-------------------------
...

Why is it that some liberals believe people should be ashamed of the gender and skin color they were born with? It completely baffles me.

It baffles you because it is not so.
We are not ashamed.
Perhaps you are misreading simple awareness of reality.
Maybe calling it shame works as a denial mechanism.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

You obviously can't see things as they are. There are a significant number of people on the left that do exactly what I said. As someone in the middle and as someone that had to work and sacrifice for everything I have now, it kind of pisses me off.

Not really fair to equate BLMs peaceful protests with Bundy's armed takeover of government buildings.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Those that are born to wealth are usually rightist.

Most people on the left are born poor or working class and have had to work hard to get what they have.

I did too. My dad was a welding inspector with no college and 4 kids. I enlisted to pay for school. My 3 sisters borrowed or got scholarships. 3 of us now have graduate degrees. We worked hard. All of us are well off, and now care for our parents.

But I also know that being born white, male and in America, even working class white man like I was, was a big head start and greased things along the way. I accept that, am grateful for it.

I'll say it again. What you call "white guilt" or shame on the left is just awareness of that reality.
If you deny that reality, then it is you who are wearing blinders.



-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Edited: 03/21/2017 at 11:18 AM by WG

Miker, let WG sit around feeling guilty about himself. Progs richly deserve to be miserable. Moreover, they have much to feel guilty about. They have caused most of the misery in the world. The PiC comes to mind.

-------------------------
I :heart; Q

Yeah, you are a fucking idiot. I have to agree with the righties on that assessment.


Glad you had a father. I was raised by a single mother and grew up as one of but a couple of white kids in a primarily Haitian and Mexican neighborhood. I worked from the day I was old enough to get a job to help my mother keep me fed and a roof over our heads. I was constantly getting jumped and in fights because I was white, and had to learn very early to defend myself. High school had more white kids in it from surrounding areas, but it was still maybe 10-15% white. There were special programs in school to help 'minorities' get into college, but because I was white, I wasn't allowed to participate. The only way I was going to college was to join the military to help pay for it... which I did, and wrecked my body up during my service to the point I am literally in pain every day of my life now that I am older. Had to have spine surgery as a result of that as well. So yeah, got out ...worked two fucking jobs while knocking down my bachelors in 3 years. Then spent years busting my ass and putting in long hours after I got my degree to get to where I am now.


White privilege? Guess someone forgot to hand that shit out to me. Someone may have made shit easier for you, but I scratched and clawed for everything I got. You can shove the white guilt and white privilege shit up your ass.

Edit: and you clowns wonder why some people get sick and tired of the nonsense the left spews. It's ok for you to apply labels and stereotypes whenever you want? Fucking hypocrites


Edited: 03/21/2017 at 03:36 PM by miker

Ha, my story is almost the same damn thing mike. Amazing. All of these crybabies screaming "white priveldge" perhaps grew up privileged...

.

Those that are born to wealth are usually rightist.


I have to disagree, I know several people who have used the welfare system to it's fullest and vote Republican. I think it is an effort to disassociate themselves from the welfare vampire stereotype, basically the same reason i-phones and nice rides are so popular in the ghetto.

-------------------------
I was right.

I don't see that as disagreement that most people who have wealth without having to work for it are Republicans, just as are most people who have money.

But sure, a lot of people vote against the system that supports them. That's how Trump won. It'll be tough for him to win again after he screws them though.

iPhones and nice rides are the new 'American dream", of course that's the first thing people buy when they have money.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

basically the same reason i-phones and nice rides are so popular in the ghetto.                                                                                            

 

 

You are so racist... StereoType much???

-------------------------

most people who have wealth without having to work for it are Republicans, just as are most people who have money. (who therefore got the money by working for it)

 

 

 So if you enherit money, (your parents worked for it)

OR you earned your money, (you worked for it)

Then you are Republican

BUT if your parents did NOT work for it and YOU did not work for it You ARE NOT REPUBLICAN...

Thats what we have been saying for 2 Generations... GET OUT AND WORK FOR IT AND YOU GET MONEY...

The Liberals are the ones saying not to work that you will be supported by the Guvment... AND the Liberal policies have failed, all those people STILL DON"T HAVE MONEY...

 

-------------------------

Truth isn't racism.

Have you ever even been near a housing project or ghetto? And this phenomenon isn't just in the US.

As far as Liberal policy, let's look at the last several presidential administrations. Which worked better, Bush and Bush or Clinton and Obama?

-------------------------
I was right.

Truth isn't racism.

Tave you ever even been near a housing project or ghetto? And this phenomenon isn't just in the US.                                                                                            

 

Thats right Ya'all, Just look at a ghetto, they all have i-phones and nice rides... Even Ghettos in other countries, because everybody in a ghetto is the same no matter what country they is in...

-------------------------

As far as Liberal policy, let's look at the last several presidential administrations. Which worked better, Bush and Bush or Clinton and Obama?                 

 

 

Is this the policies that left Black people with 32% unemployment???

Thank goodness they all still have I-phones and nice rides

 

-------------------------

Was employment for all better under Bush or Obama?

Why do republicans see black and brown people as welfare leaches and out of work white rust belt people as hard-luck noble Americans?

Welfare is welfare...isn't it?



-------------------------
I was right.

Why do republicans see black and brown people as welfare leaches and out of work white rust belt people as hard-luck noble Americans?

Welfare is welfare...isn't it?

 

 

Welfare LEACHES don't have a color... they are generational people who have been on the govement tit for GENERATIONS, You are the ones labeling them with a color

out of work people are hard-luck Americans

 they are still looking for a job and need a temporary welfare as they go from a job to unemployed and back to a job.

They also do not have a color...

IF as you say the first group is made up of black and brown people and the second group is made up of WHITE people... That is YOUR observation...

Well the TRUTH IS NOT RACIST...

-------------------------

All those years of Republican rhetoric about capitalism, free markets for goods and labor, you get paid what you are worth to your employer and if you don't like your pay you need to be more valuable or find another job...

Now the Republicans win the rust belt vote by pandering to people that feel like they are entitled to a $70k per year with bennies factory job with that GED and two pack a day smoking habit. Those folks are hard luck and need a break. Everybody else is just lazy and stupid and getting all kinds of free Obamaphones from the Dems.

It was a good tactic to divide the proletariate. Pit the out of work factory folks against the rest of the commoners.

-------------------------
...

TRUTH ISN'T RACISM

 

 

Thank you, All those Black lives matter folks will be heartened by your agreement with Police officers who shoot first and ask questions later.

Black people ARE arrested and sent to prison more than Whites.

The Hood IS more dangerous than the other side of the tracks.

Black people DO KILL more Black people than police do

Black people DO kill more Black people than white people do.

Black people ARE PREJUDICE not just against other races but against darker skinned people of their own race...

These are all TRUTHS... thank goodness that the TRUTH and SPEAKING THE TRUTH aren't RACIST...

-------------------------

Are black and whites treated equally in court?

..when being pulled over?

...when being hired?

...when walking down the street?

How do these facts fit in with yours?

-------------------------
I was right.

Seems like an observation to me....

I lol-ed at the Mcdonalds cashier that had dollar signs tattooed all up and down her arms as she handed me my cup of coffee...big money ballin!!!

And she was white somebodyelse so dont even try LOL!

-------------------------
I troll 2L.com to be a better person in real life

Sounds like you guys are the guilty ones, you keep dwelling on it.
We are happy and preparing to start moving forward again in 2018.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

I guess I did grow up relatively privileged just by having a father around, and by living in a mostly white community with good public schools. I mowed lawns and delivered newspapers as soon as I could, I've always worked because my family didn't have enough money. I got my assed kicked a lot too, by white people, just for being the only Jewish kid and being small, smart and with glasses, till I learned how bullies back off when you punch back. My military experience was gravy, lots of long hours, long missions but no body damage other than hearing loss.

I hear whines like yours from white folks all of the time miker, blaming programs designed to try help historically underprivileged for their own hardship, yet you did OK anyway, so did I, so did most white folks.

Well I don't blame them. I'm glad we are trying to equalize things a little.

Go on believing all the shit you believe, seems it was imprinted by your experiences when young so is probably too embedded in your world view to adapt, the simple reality that it is still better to be white in America will probably never sink in.

Ain't nobody screaming sufdrawn, just pointing out the truth when I hear white folks whine.
(our President seems to thrive on that whining)

Yes, some of us who grew up privileged understand that reality.
We have it good, enjoy it, don't blame your troubles on the others.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Edited: 03/22/2017 at 04:49 AM by WG

I was simply stating facts. I am not whining about a thing, in fact ...I am extremely proud of who I made myself out to be considering where I came from. Sorry you have the problem with facts that don't fit your world view, but it doesnt change them.





How about you stop being ignorant and realize that in modern America, it is less about the color of your skin and more about socioeconomic class. Unless you can find a way to rise up or get lucky, the poor stay poor and the rich stay rich. When it comes to that, it really doesn't matter if you are black, white, hispanic, indian... whatever.

Sure we still have racial issues in this country, I don't think anyone with half a brain can deny that. However, simply saying someone is vastly more advantaged because the color of their skin in 2017 is outdated, tired, and simply wrong. For decades it has been becoming less about race and more about class to the point now I would say it is probably 80-90% about class than it is about race in this country.

Look, if you want to hate yourself for being born white and you have so much self loathing that you happened to be born with a penis, cool. Just do yourself a favor and try to look at the bigger picture. Simply blaming race as the cause of the problems doesn't address the far larger issue.





On a side note.... speaking of LEOs

I can guaranfuckingtee you that I got stopped and harassed vastly more by the police in my neighborhood than the rich kids did on the other side of town. I am guessing that doesn't play into liberal narrative and ideas either, eh?

Okie Doakie.

This gross mischaracterization of and oversimplification of the opposing argument detracts from your point.

Most people are on board with the importance of socio-economic divisions and class-ism in today's world. But you are downplaying race to an absurd degree.

Your experience growing up was clearly much different from my growing up in a very segregated southern VA and northeast NC. There was definite classism with the ruling families having much different relationship with law enforcement than the rest of us. But there was seething racism and that racism is not gone. The trailer park whites had a high chance of being stuck there for generations by circumstance but they also had a better chance of getting out of poverty than the poor blacks and a large part of that equation was differential treatment by the police and schools. It is bettern now than when I was a kid but it is still more than the 10% of the equation that you attribute.

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Edited: 03/22/2017 at 06:32 AM by scombrid

We will have to agree to disagree then Scombrid. I agree that is was most definitely about race 40 years ago, but it has very slowly and very surely been move towards class divide. Again, I never said race isnt an issue ....I just think the bigger issue is class.

It wasn't a whine, it was look into his life experience, and mine was very similar.

Minorities had the "priviledge" with grants tenfold. Hmmm, can we call that "black priviledge"? Nah, that would be anti-pc huh?

But no one wants to talk about those priviledges minorities have, perhaps it doesn't fit into the lefts racial profiling views.

If you think you stuggled because there were grants "tenfold" then you are just making excuses.

Schools paid me to go. Granted it wasn't the Ivy League, just sorry ass state schools like W&M. I consider myself lucky and don't harbor resentment toward programs that are trying to break a cycle.

I had a friend that went to Virginia State on a minority scholarship. White kid, historically black southern college. You probably could have gotten a minority scholarship to Hampton U or Norfolk State.

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Lets make this real simple:

A white male applies for the same job a black female applies for, who is more likely to get the job solely based on gender/race?

Which of the two has a law crafted to ensure "equal oppurtunity?"

Here is another example:

How many scholarships are there offered because someone is a white male? How many schlolarships out there are offered because someone is a black male?

Now...please explain to me how "Whites" are privelaged? What fucking privelages do they have over non-whites? I can cite quite a few examples of the counter.

The leftist "racial inequality" they scream in this day and age is a complete insult to those that actualy lived through it, and fought to put these initiatives in place to stop it.

Racism will always exist, but to sit here and say it exists at the levels it did back in the 60's, or to say that whites are "privelaged" is utter and complete bullshit.

I've cited examples to prove my case. Please, by all means, cite examples of "white privelage" to counter my argument. But, please stick to facts, not narratives.

 

You and a black guy are both speeding 12 over, do you think your chances of getting stopped are the same? Why or why not? Use extra sheets if necessary. Spelling counts.

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“It is the heart of US policy to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism “ - Michael Parenti

Again, I asked for facts, as in actual laws/scholarships/some sort of something that shows whites having an advantage, not narratives.

Are you suggesting that all this "privelage" I hear about is about them being able to get away with speeding?....

Not being harrassed by police is pretty nice actually.

 

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Depends on where the incident takes place Rusty. If you are poor and live in a community where white people are the minority, chances are the white person will get pulled over first simply because they are 'out of place' and 'probably doing something wrong' ....even if they live there.

In a rich white neighborhood, obviously the black dude does.

White guy where I work.

HR might make us interview the minority candidate but the white guy gets the job unless the black female is more qualified.

 

There's still a bias in which two applications hit a managers desk with equal qualifications and the one with the "black sounding" name goes in the garbage more often than the white. This isn't universal but is still shows up as happening frequently enough to not be happenstance.

The affirmative action rules were meant to counteract this.

You can create two Air BnB profiles that are completely identical, but put a black photo with one and a white photo with the other and the white gets offered the rental whereas the landlord tells the black that there's no room at the inn.

Not universal, but statistically significant proportiong.

The bias is not as pervasive as in the past but it still exists.

 

 

 

Sit here and say it?

Quote the posts.

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Not an excuse, its a fact.

And good for you and your buddy that got a free ride in VA. In NJ, that wasn't how things worked.

9 times out of the 10 the black person will get the job even if they have lesser exeperience. I have seen it time and time again. EOE employer my ass, how about Experienced Oppurtunity Employer instead.

 

as usual, somebodyelse misses the point and heads for the familiar weeds, I won't waste time trying to correct him

but this bit:

"GET OUT AND WORK FOR IT AND YOU GET MONEY...

pretending that is some secret that only righties get and not a universal truth that everybody does is among the stupidest things I hear from cons

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

In all honesty, I was probably harassed more than the Haitian kids.... and I know I was more than the Mexican kids. From a LEO's perspective, seeing a white kid in the ghetto probably made them automatically assume I was up to no good. Heh.

Probably the truth. I've been stopped driving thru the Ghetto as a white man, Cops wondering why I was there.

But this is crap:

"Look, if you want to hate yourself for being born white and you have so much self loathing that you happened to be born with a penis, cool."

I've had enough of this stupid shit from cons. It's lazy. Just because I'm not ignorant about inequality, stop putting words in my mouth or pretending I think stuff I don't. White people that recognize that they are still a bit privileged don't "hate ourselves" and I certainly don't loath that I have a dick. I'm fucking glad I wasn't born black or a woman, I see the shit they have to put up with.

I'm proud and happy to be a white male, because it makes life easier.

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Sorry, but I am not a conservative. If anything, I am more liberal than conservative. Speaking of lazy, pulling out the you-dont-agree-with-me-so-you-must-be-THEM argument is just as lazy as it is when the conservatives use it to call me a progressive on these boards. The material is unoriginal and way played out.

See I am not ignorant about inequality either, I just think it is more about class now than it is about race. See, if you labeled this inequality as privilege instead of 'white privilege' and had an actual understanding that if you come from poor communities and long/cross generational history of being part of the have-not crowd, that the color of your skin doesnt really fucking matter when it comes to the opportunities presented to you.

Poor black communities had fathers that would jet, mothers that were hooked on crack, and kids that were brought into adulthood through gang violence. This is still true, however, you also now have poor white kids without fathers, that have mothers hooked on meth, and brought into adulthood already hooked on meth or heroin and in and out of jail.

See WG I am not disagreeing with you at all, I am just telling you that you are only seeing part of the picture and you are too fucking busy consuming far left liberal nonsense to see it.

Fuck, how did I miss this the entire time...

WG

W.G.

W hite
G uilt

Hmm.

Blowbs thinks a black woman has a better chance of getting a job than a white man? 

Absurd.

Check unemployment/income figures to see if whites have an advantage.

When there is opportunity laid out in front of you, special laws enacted to give you the advantage, scholarships offered to help get you educated, yet you still make up the highest percentage of unemployment, that does not mean white people are "privileged".....

I'll ask again, what "privileges " do white people have, specifically? Again, I can name multiple examples of black people having certain privileges.

Bullshit
pure and simple.
grow the fuck up
take responsibility for your own life

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

no, you can't.

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill

Privilege - A special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

Scholarships for black people:

https://www.google.com/#q=scholarships+for+black+college+students&*&spf=383

(sure are a shit load of them, huh?)

Scholarships for white people:

https://www.google.com/#q=scholarships+for+white+college+students&*&spf=705

(Not a god damn one).

Tell me again, whose got the privilege, or "Special advantage" when it comes to paying for school?