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Topic Title: Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:
Topic Summary:
Created On: 05/10/2017 03:46 PM
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - WG - 05/10/2017 03:46 PM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - miker - 05/10/2017 07:14 PM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - somebodyelse - 05/11/2017 04:38 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - pompano - 05/11/2017 06:13 PM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - miker - 05/12/2017 05:06 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - somebodyelse - 05/12/2017 05:18 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - pompano - 05/14/2017 05:37 PM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - WG - 05/14/2017 05:50 PM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - ww - 05/18/2017 04:59 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - miker - 05/18/2017 05:37 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - WG - 05/18/2017 05:46 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - miker - 05/18/2017 05:56 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - WG - 05/18/2017 06:46 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - stokedpanda - 05/18/2017 07:07 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - WG - 05/18/2017 07:20 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - skatensurf - 05/18/2017 07:49 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - Karma - 05/18/2017 10:56 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - ww - 05/18/2017 09:37 PM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - dingpatch - 01/10/2018 05:40 PM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - 3rdworldlover - 01/11/2018 06:53 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - RegularJoe - 01/11/2018 09:00 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - WG - 01/11/2018 09:53 PM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - Plan B - 01/12/2018 06:34 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - RegularJoe - 01/12/2018 08:11 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - TeeBirdForever - 01/17/2018 09:42 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - TeeBirdForever - 01/18/2018 07:32 AM  
 Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles:   - RegularJoe - 01/22/2018 07:15 PM  
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 05/10/2017 03:46 PM
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WG

Posts: 37257
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cheaper than regular roof with 'infinity warranty' and 30 yrs of solar power

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill
 05/10/2017 07:14 PM
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miker

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So 21 sqft .....not sure how that is cheaper before energy savings.
 05/11/2017 04:38 AM
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somebodyelse

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I didn't see anything about energy efficiency?

typical solar power is around 25% conversion...

It doesn't say what the conversion of these are.

IF new solar technologies come out that beat the 25% conversion AND they don't have the weight of a Glass tile they would outdo these tiles...



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 05/11/2017 06:13 PM
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pompano

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current theoretical limit is 29% Musk is pretty much the current leader of most things engineering lately, so my guess is it is a decent offering.

 05/12/2017 05:06 AM
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miker

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It looks to be a great long term investments as long as that tax credit is there and about even if it is not.

The real issue is, who the hell is going to pay 60k up front to put a new roof on when it 'may' pay for itself over 30 years.
 05/12/2017 05:18 AM
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somebodyelse

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Traditional silicon wafers are made from a material that has to be melted at 2000 degrees in an arc furnace. This causes a lot of pollution from emissions that are produced during the production process. Perovskites are made mostly of carbon and hydrogen, as manufacturers mix up solutions of perovskites which they can spray on surfaces of virtually any shape, no furnace needed. The film itself weighs very little.

This ability to spray on the film to any surface eliminates the second drawback of silicon solar cells which is their  weight and their rigid configuration. Silicon cells work by laying them flat in large, heavy panels. Those panels are joined together in large displays that are expensive and need a large foot print to install them.

Another drawback of silicon solar cells is their static power efficiency; they have been stuck at an efficiency of 25 percent. Perovskites started out with a 4 percent power conversion rate and with improvements have reached 20% in just 7 years. Because they are so much cheaper to make and because they are more versatile in deployment, that small 5% difference is enough to make them competitive with silicon solar cells. Since the research into Perovskites is just starting it is believed that their efficiency will soon outstrip the older static silicon cells.

By stacking two perovskite solar cells that are printed on glass on top of each other they can improve the overall efficiency to over 30%. A single perovskite layer captures photons from the visible spectrum but low energy photons pass right through the layer. By matching a second layer of perovskite that captures the low energy photons with the first layer a higher efficiency is achieved.

Researchers can further optimizing Perovskites by adding coatings that minimize surface reflections which increases the amount of energy entering the array. By stacking a perovskite that strongly absorbs reddish light on top of Perovskites that absorb blue and green light more of the light spectrum can be converted to electricity.  Manufacturers are also working on larger Perovskites arrays and working with different coatings that better protect the Perovskites from the weather. Soon Perovskites may replace silicon wafers as the solar cell of choice.



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 05/14/2017 05:37 PM
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pompano

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sweet, we have new composite material mark, and the limit is higher.  Yea science!

The efficiency limit of perovskite cells (without the angular restriction) is about 31%, which approaches to Shockley-Queisser limit (33%) achievable by gallium arsenide (GaAs) cells. 

Bad news for the US is a lot of the research papers are coming from China these days. 

 05/14/2017 05:50 PM
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WG

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I don't think that is such bad news.
Let's the Chinese make them.

There are jobs and profit in the installation.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill
 05/18/2017 04:59 AM
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ww

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I wonder about Florida wind standards.

 05/18/2017 05:37 AM
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miker

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So yeah, great news if you can afford the 60k up front for a roof.
 05/18/2017 05:46 AM
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WG

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A decent quality tile roof can cost more that 30K.
And this one makes power.
You pay now or you pay later.

But I think Tesla is going to have to finance these to make much of an immediate dent in the retrofit market.

-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill
 05/18/2017 05:56 AM
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miker

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Most people can't pay now whether they want to or not.

New construction and commercial construction is a possibility. Even if Tesla would and could finance them for people, most people are still not going to take out a 60k+ loan for a roof.

Hell most people won't even put on a new tile roof unless they are replacing an existing one. Why pay 30k+ for a tile roof when one can pay 12k for one that will last 18-20 years.
 05/18/2017 06:46 AM
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WG

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Like me, I went with shingles.

"most people are still not going to take out a 60k+ loan for a roof. "

If you think of it as just a roof, no.
If you think of it as a sustainable energy supply, and big FU to the electric company, perhaps.

People spend that much on a car that's gonna depreciate like a rock.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill
 05/18/2017 07:07 AM
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stokedpanda

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Originally posted by: WG


People spend that much on a car that's gonna depreciate like a rock.


Rocks actually don't depreciate all that much, according to some scientists certain rocks have lasted thousands of years.


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 05/18/2017 07:20 AM
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WG

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yea, but what were they worth back then vs. now?
Nobody values rocks much these days, but Fred Flintstone did.

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"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill
 05/18/2017 07:49 AM
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skatensurf

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diamonds are expensive
 05/18/2017 10:56 AM
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Karma

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Pretty nice if you live remote or somewhere that experiences high power costs and lots of black/brown outs...like Puerto Rico these days!

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 05/18/2017 09:37 PM
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ww

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Who needs PR?  Vero Beach gets plenty of outages.  

Consumer Reports has info on cost/payoffs of Tesla roof.  

 01/10/2018 05:40 PM
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dingpatch

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Tesla has finally begun manufacturing solar roof tiles
The process has been delayed (unsurprisingly).

Swapna Krishna, @skrishna
21h ago in Home

Tesla has apparently begun manufacturing its solar roof tiles at its Buffalo, New York, factory, according to Reuters. The company is also starting the process of surveying the homes of people who placed a deposit on the tiles last year for installation purposes. We've reached out to Tesla for confirmation.

Preorders for the solar roof tiles began back in May; customers paid $1,000 as a deposit on the product, and US installation was supposed to start in the summer of 2017. However, unsurprisingly, the process was delayed. But now, it looks as though most of the kinks have been worked out, and Reuters reports that the roofs will be installed in coming months.

Tesla claims that the solar roof tiles will cost less than a typical roof, around $21.85 per square foot instead of $24.50. The tiles are a solid option if you're planning on replacing your roof in the next few years, or if you're considering solar panels. The tiles look like regular shingles; in fact, not every shingle installed is solar, though you can't distinguish between the two. You can customize what percentage of your roof tiles are solar in their online tool; the max is 70 percent. Obviously, the more solar panels you install, the more expensive your roof is. The company is still taking preorders with $1,000 deposits. You can sign up at their website if you're so inclined.

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 01/11/2018 06:53 AM
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3rdworldlover

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Might be some insurance savings. They have the highest possible wind, fire, and hail ratings. I did their online calculator for my home, and I would need to be able to sell the excess power in order to make it cost effective, or find a way to use a lot more power.
 01/11/2018 09:00 AM
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RegularJoe

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$50K out of pocket for Tesla roof now? Plus energy/insurance savings recouped over a long future?
vs
$10K out of pocket for conventional now with the other $40K invested at modest returns?

I think the latter wins that business case.

The other downside of shelling out big $ now is that solar roof prices may drop sharply a few years after your purchase.

I love the idea, but can't see doing it at the current price. I'm also curious about the labor/installation cost. Wondering if it might be more cost-effective to do a solar driveway.

Newer roof definitely helps with insurance, but you don't get full discount unless you have all the right ties, straps, shutters, etc to cover every single opening.
 01/11/2018 09:53 PM
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WG

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Not sure about your math there Joe.
Tesla solar tiles are a glass tile roof system with a lifetime warranty.

Not gonna cost just 10K for even a basic tile roof on an average home even without power generation. Maybe just for sh
ingles (mine was 12K last year)

More like 20-25K+ for even simple terra-cotta And no lifetime warranty.

I think you also left out the tax rebates, and I think the prices quoted were installed

forbes dd their own analysis (also comparing with asphalt shingles)

But of course, the early adopters aren't going to be doing it solely for the savings, they also value the independence and care about helping to solve the very real global warming crisis.


-------------------------
"The truth is incontrovertible.
malice may attack it,
ignorance may deride it,
but in the end,
there it is." -Sir Winston Churchill
 01/12/2018 06:34 AM
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Plan B

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My parents have an aging terra cotta roof (that took some Hurricane damage the past two years).... A new roof quote was close to 40K  (maybe some seasonal gouging?).  At their age he found someone willing to repair it for 2K (it was hard to find matching tiles)

He was considering this option, and if your intention is to stay in the house for a long time it could be worth it. (although, I don't think the tax credits exist anymore )

 01/12/2018 08:11 AM
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RegularJoe

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I did leave rebates out, as well as energy savings.

But I based $10K now on my $8K roof replacement in 2011 (approx 3%/year inflation).

Investing the remaining $40K at 5% for 20 years, until your new shingle roof wears out, will net you $106K.

If you buy a new shingle roof again then, with 20 years' of 3% inflation, it would be $18K. Buy it then and have $88K left over.

The solar roof should get cheaper over time (as tech and mass production would drive), but if you assume inflation still makes the number $50K for solar 20 years from now, you still come out $56K ahead.

The insurance and energy savings accumulate incrementally, so you don't have the equivalent of a full lump saving on Day 1 that increases in value over 20 years.

I definitely appreciate the spirit of the early adopters who can afford it now, and do so for good reasons. But I don't see it as a good investment for the common man yet. In 20 more years, much more likely, but too late in my lifetime to have positive ROI.

Since I'll be due for another roof in 13 years, I'll re-evaluate then.


Extra factoid: When I did my new roof in 2011, I used energy-efficient shingles, only to find I wasn't eligible for the tax rebates because it was a rental property at the time. It only applied to the house that was your primary residence at the time. Gotta read the fine print in deals like that!
 01/17/2018 09:42 AM
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TeeBirdForever

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Solar roof = good, but hard to recharge your car. That's a lot of energy.

Cars, dryers, electric stoves and ovens, HVAC are all hogs.

Your computer and lights; no problem.

Electric scooter could be a lot better than a car. Maybe.

 01/18/2018 07:32 AM
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TeeBirdForever

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I know, I know, it's a fossil fuel, but one reason gas heat is cheaper is that it's way more efficient to burn it right in your house. That's direct to heat; no losses (except the energy to push the gas through the pipes) whereas using a heat engine to generate electricity and THEN turning that into heat is a sort of fail.

Using just 20 percent of the sunlight that hits your roof (rough efficiency of a panel) for heating is kind of ironic too.

Physics is not fake news.

 01/22/2018 07:15 PM
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RegularJoe

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Updating the math to include one other consideration:

If you're looking at dropping $5K to $10K, on a whole-house standby generator for hurricane season, and your neighborhood doesn't get natural gas, so you have to drop $4K on a propane tank and $2K to fill it... those are direct, up-front costs that can be traded off against the solar roof + battery wall.
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