Check out our new edit on what happened to First Peak and cheapest and easiest way to fix it.

Don't anyone get their panties in a bunch...a "Sand Video" is in the making but we could have First Peak restored before that edit gets finished.

Enjoy.

The Simplest Solution to Restore First Peak

 

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

I thought the drive was for worm rock?

Why the change?

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I was right.

You place the panels and then worm reef grows on the panels.  You guys make this seem like it's rocket science. 

We've had a worm reef program in place at Sebastian Inlet since 2009. The course is fixed.

-------------------------

The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 11/28/2017 at 08:54 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

I like the shorter and more simple video and the simpler solution. Good work. Ive already donated and I hope more people will get behind this. It’s too bad so many surfers are so apathetic. 

 

Thanks satbch. We're just going to keep charging. We have solutions that involve growing more worm reef. We also have some concepts that naturally transport more sand from the northside to Monster Hole, so both First Peak and Monster Hole get better. It's sad that surfers are the biggest impediment to the project moving forward because this really is a great opportunity for eveyone. Keep the faith! We won't give up.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 11/29/2017 at 09:02 AM by TheFirstPeakProject

 


"It's sad that surfers are the biggest impediment to the project moving forward because this really is a great opportunity for everyone. Keep the faith! We won't give up."



Why are surfers the "biggest impediment"?

'cause we don't give them any money?

The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) non-profit 

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add a signature since I'm here in profile anyway

We have no idea why the local legends or surfshop owners will not publicly endorse the FPP; it's such a huge opporunity for them.

Most surfers would love the legends even more for at least trying.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Maybe shops/legends don't want to get the community's hopes up on one of the most touchy subjects for FL surfers by endorsing a sure fix unless they really know it'll work...

Math/physics does not lie and it should be possible to prove/disprove a hypothesis like this by using it with historical data.  This kind of thing isn't my day job but there are people at Surfline for whom it is their day job so work with them...

I'm not sure what went into that animation, but I think historical swell data should be used (direction, period, height, etc.) coupled with past bathymetry records, and yes including jetty structure measurements, to create heat map animations of wave energy.

Think about all the analysis Surfline has done with say Pipeline's reef system and mechanics.  Well similar analysis could be done for 1st Peak, and not just 1st Peak but the entire Sebastian Inlet zone/surrounding waters.  Once you fully understand excactly what made it tick you can understand why it failed and thus what would bring it back (that barrel clip shows the new jetty in the background btw)...

Here's a link to get started: http://www.sebastianinletdistrict.com/pdf/State_of_the_Sebastian_Inlet_Report_2013.pdf

Page 20, 21, and 22 shows sand has been considerably accumulating at Monster Hole and leaving the north side.  Page 4 touches on the considerable affect Monster Hole (i.e., ebb shoal) has been observed to have on wave refraction (i.e., steering of the swell energy) in the Sebastian Inlet zone.

Without the use of something along the lines of Surfline's Lola models tailored to this application that can illustrate the past/present/future and thus the affect changing variables have numerically on the system, ideas like closing the jetty gaps are just shots in the dark... pipe dreams.

This modeling could include illustrating jetty reflection affect too and answer a series of questions designed to better understand the situation...

E.g., what if the amount of relative jetty reflection energy is determined to have changed by only a negligible amount but relative onshore swell energy north of and adjacent to the jetty has declined by an amount that is considerable?

You've stated in another thread that you believe the opposite is true but can we get like a scaled down demo or something at least??

The hydrodynamics prof who helped design Slater's wave pool would also be a good resource. He obviously has the simulation tools and ability to model reflections, sloshing, reef interaction, etc.

Wishing the best for all in this!

K07 - The FPP is not a spokesperson for Surfline, but here is what we can say.

Surfline has been very supportive of our efforts and they are keen to seeing FP come back.  The FPP was covered in an article on Surfline. Here is the link.

In laymen's terms, the Lola Model compiles global climate data (primarily wave & wind) and generates synthetic forecast data. Their algorithm just happens to be the best in the world.  The is similar to the Google search engine being better than Bing or Yahoo.

What Lola is not is a physics engine.  Computational Fluid Dynamics or CFD models run the physical governing equations, in this case Navier Stokes, which are calibrated in laboratories. These are also known as numerical models.  In those State of the Inlet reports you are seeing results from the Army Corps of Engineer's numerical model called the Surface Water Modelling System or SMS.  This modelling work is performed by Professors and PhD candidates at Florida Tech. The funding comes from the Army Corps and the Sebastian Inlet Tax District. Members of the team here at the FPP are authors of previous State of the Inlet reports.  Yew!

Lola is a spectral and data assimilation model.  LOLA provides the wave forecast and it's up to surfers to determine how those conditions will break or barrel at their local spots. A Fully 3D CFD model can resolve actual wave mechanics such as wave breaking. Basically, they are two completely different animals. To put the whole LOLA model in perspective, everyone should write Surfline an email and ask them to do an updated "Mechanics of First Peak" article.

And speaking of your pipe dreams regarding closing the gaps... And to think some people in Brevard County once said the same thing about walking on the moon.

-------------------------

The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 12/01/2017 at 11:27 AM by TheFirstPeakProject

Nice with the worm rock.

The carbon fiber seems like a waste of time, I imagine it's too hard for the worms to hold on to. Why not try some type of webbing? If you can get the worms to grow, getting them to form a solid mass appears to be the easier route.

I looked into their salinity tolerance and they appear to be pretty hardy, though I'm not sure how they handle pollution.

I have one more question: Worm rock grows at the water line and swell extends well above that line, will closing the gaps at sea level help or does it need to go higher?

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I was right.

Edited: 11/30/2017 at 08:16 PM by Cole

Carbon Fiber is presently the GoTo material for piling restoration by the FDOT. In the video, the Neptune Research Institute NPI is installing Carbon Fiber on a piling in South Florida. NPI has pledged to donate all the carbon fiber we need to restore First Peak.

The first video was called the "Simplest Solution to Restore First Peak." In our next video you will see a webbing designed to maximize worm reef growth.  Great anticipation Cole!

We've posted a TON on this forum regarding the design parameters of the panels and their heights. We're not going to repost.  It's on the 2ndLight somewhere.

-------------------------

The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

I spent a lot of time on, under and next to that jetty when I was a kid and everything at 1st peak just seems wrong now.

I hope you are on the right track, I really do.

One thing will remain certain: It will still be impossible to pull fat snapper out of those stupid new pilings.

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I was right.

I have been following the project loosely for a bit now and the engineers on it do seem incredible and definitely seem like experts.   

Great job on the video but maybe it would have been  a little clearer in the last two videos if details about the reflective surface composition  mentioned worm rock though

Question though Is there a concern for wave energy getting underneath the panels though if the worm doesnt take or takes too long? They definitely seem like the best quickly reversible way, although have 2.5 foot diameter suction anchors or caissons been considered so nothing has to attach the the pilings at all and coverage to the ground in between? Im sure you have that all covered just heard they are used residentially now, install in a day but not my profession at all. Probably make it too complicated.

One more point just wanted to know if it was modeled if turbulence in the navigation channel will be increased. 

Either way would like to support the project. Are any stickers available?

A million Chef's, but aint one put a plate on the table but Jerm and Josh!!! How bout all you FIT grads and self proclaimed Meteorologist's pony up a $20 spot and STFU!!!

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Tubes, Boobs, & Doobs!!!

I revel at the inherent inability for a surfer that has reaped the benefits of this wave prior to the 2001 demise to pony up any contribution but contribute bad press and pessimism.  FPP, I will match donations from folks here that give that actually ponies up to a cumulative total of $1K. 

And if you think sand or the end of the jetty is part of the problem, I cannot begin to tell you how blind faith and an ignorance of engineering will leave you looking as stupid as waiting for a winning wave when the horn sounds.

Pardon for asking, but how can sand not be a factor?

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I was right.

sand is grooming the quality of the wave.  You have to realize you need to fix the rebound first.  The FPP has talked about the fact of what happens when they could get a chance to fix the rebound that the sand will be impacted, but they cannot jump right in and dump sand.  There is NO way anyone know what the hell the sand should be. 

 

So, it as easy as fix the wave rebound, and then worry about the details.

 

[edit] to put it into surferspeak that most of the older surfers that have typical jobs will comprehend.  Do you tape and fill final paint or stucco before you put in the panels and tape and cover, or what?  Oh, I do all my finish work before I do the initial panel work, sand and paint.  yeah, I don't think so.

[edit] I have another analogy for the folks in the surfboard biz.  Imagine you have a board that was shaped and has both lams.  Thinking sand is the answer is like putting on your final pin stripes and gloss coat before you even do the fill coat and sand and do the fairing. You have to make it work first. then you can work on the finishing touches.

Edited: 12/02/2017 at 04:26 PM by pompano

If it's five feet shallower where the wave focuses on the jetty, won't that screw the whole pooch?

I'm sure you remember the bowls next to the Canaveral Pier. Back in the 80's, the waves, even on giant days, broke at the end of the pier and the dynamic created a super fun wave. Today if it's got size the wave breaks 100 yards past the Tiki bar and the pier has little, if any, effect.

Can't the same happen at the north jetty?

To compensate, don't the panels have to extend well above and well below the impact zone?

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I was right.

  I think the 80 ft.addded to the jetty along wirlth the northern angle just pushed the peak further up the beach and not next to the jetty! Now we have to many peaks, it's just not concentreted. In one spot. I believe the extension is th culprit! That's my opinion! 

"...................Take 10 cases of TNT built a blast wall where you want to stop the blast and blow up the last 80 ft to old length. Done.

Many of you are way over-thinking this whole thing.

We can get an experimental permit with support from the Corps' Engineering with Nature Division to grow more worm reef and have a wedge year-round.

If you go down to the inlet and surf this December and January you will see the worm reef around the pilings, the wedge has been working a little at low tide. Just go surf, then comment.  It is so easy on this forum to tell who actually SURFS the inlet.

If everyone on this forum pitched in $5 bucks and helped us gain positive support in the community, we can bring back First Peak.

If you guys don't like the wave, then we can remove the panels and call it a day.

Pompano & ClaimingDFL - You guys are epic and the FPP Team really appreciates both your approaches and supportive efforts. You guys are setting the example to the forum of what we need to do to get this done. Keep charging.

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The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 12/07/2017 at 09:13 AM by TheFirstPeakProject

The extension and angle is what did it.

Regulation.  You should have regulated the Corps from the extension with the same force 1st peak was regualted when it was good.  It was extreemly hard to get a wave there as that was the most regulated peak on the East coast with a true pecking order.  I think you need to divide that $90K up between the 15-20 guys that will be getting 95% of the peaks.  But I hope it does happen because I will sign back up with NSSA and surf my way into ECC again  and get a few 20-30 min heats with only 3 other guys.  That was the easiest way for me to pick off juicy ones.  Not hate but pure fact.

I want it to work, that's why I thinking of all the possibilities, pro and con.

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I was right.

I don't get why Kelly won't just pay for the whole thing. Or someone else in the surf world who has a lot of money. How about a company? 90k for a giant industry brand to pay for it and they'd make 10x the money back from the publicity and more sales. It just seems weird to me that this hasn't happened yet. 

I get that all the time... Puff puff, pass



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Just lash some plywood to the darn piles and prove it will bring back the bounce. Get a few photos and the money will pour in. To be honest, I still cant believe they are gonna let you install something that is gonna take away the dissipating properties of the construction.

Good idea. One inch should do just fine.



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I was right.

Doesn't the worm rock already prove this on a seasonal basis? ...and it doesn't even make a continuous reflective wall.

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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Some old school peak action. 

 

Bingo! In the interest of helping out the FPP, I'll confirm there's been a big improvement in the amount of bounce over the last month down there. Had a couple sessions where there was actually breaking reflection waves rolling into the peak. You can also clearly see all of the extra worm rock that has grown in around the new pilings, particularly in the period from the mid tide down to low and back up.

All the storm activity from the fall blasted out a lot of the sand.. and bam!

I wouldn't say that! Check out SebastianInletCam.com for the monitoring camera the Sebastian Inlet Tax District has set up. You can review the north panorama angle over the last few months and actually see the beach fill back in! It's gotten shallower, not deeper, since our fall northerly swells have started up again and there's a nice photo record courtesy of the Sebastian Inlet Tax Distruct to prove it.

I know the site well... Look at the N view from say Aug 15th and compare it to today's image. Huge difference in the ammt of sand before the stormy fall and today. Plus the sandbars causing our issues are in the nearshore zone.

Go back and look at all the epic first peak pics from the Momma G era (RIP). many years after the new jetty yet pre mass beach re-nourishment.

Go back through the archive pics you mention. natural build up in summers and then scrapped out through the fall/winter. today's N facing pic has a lot less sand than a few months back.

I'm all for FPP's effort to try something. I get it. I'm just being realistic about all the factors involved.

you guys should just stop the random, amateur, wave cam hypothesizing.  Give the professionsals at FPP that actually know wave dynamics some support.  I said I'd match it.  

What a difference that link shows with the solid swell and proper form satbch!  I think it's very important to not look at little fun windswell pics/vids and think something is different.. That link shows what we now miss when a real swell is in the water.. The right wind swell still wedges/barrells there good enough but that isn't what made it famous!

Thanks for the Surfline link FPP that's awesome you got to sit down with them, so you must have their contact info so reach out for collaboration and their input on the science (I will contact as well via email)...

And that's why I mentioned LOLA because it's incredible but the potential/logic of it can't just be limited to forecasts.  LOLA could be tailored to show how groundswell filters into 1st with different swell parameters on a scale local to Sebastian Inlet so we'd know whether or not this factor has changed at all.

Like they've done for Long Island, NY and the Hudson Canyon/Channel for past swells.  And like it can explain Scripps Pier getting robbed when Blacks goes off.  If swell isn't getting in and/or focused the same compared with previous bathymetry input then that's by far a bigger problem than details on what would make it wedgier or hollower (we wouldn't wonder why Scripps isn't barrelling when Black's is right)?  We know Monster Hole has gained sand, that box is checked, so we need to dig a little further there, to have a breakthrough or rule it out.

Don't over complicate... Before the wave was excellent and now it's not.  Start making comparisons, checking boxes, and narrowing down possibilities.

Also, what about a scaled down mini version of your idea via two tests (1. current version with solid core but outer/open pillings, 2. same thing but with closed off pillings), then generate adjacent wave energy that is a constant and measure the change in reflective energy between the two.

Bringing back a wave is a pipe dream by all means but if you can understand the physical properties it would take then you can know whether or not it's possible for it to become more than just a pipe dream.. This is the stage this project is in imho so keep pushing because it's possible to know more still!

pompano Your offer to the FPP is very commendable. Much respect for making the commitment to support them. Having said that, your last comment was pretty disrespectful. If someone makes a statement with facts to back it up, what's amateur about that? I'm supporting the FPP by pointing out things that align with their analysis. It is a fact that the worm rock has built back up on the outer pilings over the last few months. Anyone can go there and see it plain as day. It is also a fact that there is more reflection happening now than there was a few months ago as anyone who surfs there on a regular basis will tell you. For matt_t it is also a fact that the camera does not lie and that there is more sand on the beach and in the surf zone now than there was on August 15th. Both pics were within 30 minutes of low tide and in the August image you can clearly see the stack of old broken pilings near shore that are now covered up in the image from today. If you're going start talking about sand being shifted in the nearshore zone (beyond the surf line), that's purely conjecture and I highly doubt you have any evidence to support that. Why did I bother chasing this? If we're going to have a truly meaningful discussion on this topic, we need to actually use facts and not simply throw unsubstantiated comments out there.

@pompano
You'll match contributions dollar for dollar?

-------------------------
"Don't count the days, make the days count." -Ali
#rydyrstrong

What is amateur is exactly this:  You and I are not professionals in how to detail improvements to wave conditions based on reflective boundary conditions.  We don't have experience to make qualified judgements to that fact.  Thus, we are amateurs by definition.  It is not disrespectful at all.  Worm rock comes and goes.  I can guarantee you that a wave will break based on the height of the wave to the depth of water to the sand beneath it, not based on how much sand is on the beach.  That is a fact.  My point goes directly to what FPP is talking about tackling.  Fixing the condition that will directly improve the rebound wave.  It sucks right now.  The engineered structure has to be improved.  They are not moving sand.  Sand is a secondary thing.  You can talk about sand all day long.  FPP is not going to do anything directly related to that.  You have aptly shown sand transport results in those pics.  It will always happen.  Fact. It will always be changing.  I'm not disrespecting you, I'm telling you what FPP has talked about ad infinitum as to what they hope to achieve first. 

Certon, as I stated earlier in this thread, I would match up to a cumulative kilobuck of total donations.  All my tithing goes to ocean, reef, and beach related causes.  It is my give back to the community that I live in.

Mad props!!

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"Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do." - Bertrand Russell


"Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


If I do not answer you .... nothing personal, I just have you on ignore.

FYI- I do have a degree in Marine Science, graduated in '96. My area of focus was coastal morphology. I worked under some amazing PHD's in the Carolina's who are well known in the field of Coastal Processes (Dr, Orin Pilkey and Dr Paul Gayes). During my time there we pioneered brand new beach and nearshore survey systems (from the dune out until about 3/4 mile offshore). The basis for the baselines and standards they use today. I also spent some time on NOAA ships doing vibra core samples along the east coast to map out old channels and determine historic coastline morphology. I currently work in the private sector as a govt contractor providing and supporting weather data to the NWS and FAA. I've also spent lots of time at the inlet over the last 25 yrs (first one out at dawn yesterday and one of last out of the water in the dark last night!). I'm not claiming to be an expert but I might know a little something about this topic.

Again, I'm not against FPP. I just see a very narrow scoped project and unless I missed it, little or no credible outside peer reviews.

FPP, if you get that permit to grow the reef, I will donate $500 (Certon and Pompano will match it)

Matt_t, I stand corrected, you are not an amateur.  I was in the grad track at UF under Dean in '90, but left after two semesters to take a job here in my undergrad discipline.  Let's just say I am much more in line with Pilkey than Dean. 

matt_t - With all due respect, you have your order of operations incorrect.  We need donations to complete our permit application, to get the permit. We get the money, then we get the wave

These credential battles are cute, but hold little weight on this forum. For one this forum is anonymous and trolls hiding behind aliases frequently derail the conversations. Secondly, the more credentials you list, the more people resent you and hold you in contempt.  Welcome to 2017!

If you must know, at the First Peak Project, we all have advanced degrees in coastal engineering. Most of our thesis and dissertation work was completed at Sebastian Inlet while assisting the inlet's long standing annual sediment management and dredging. If you private message us and provide an email address, we'll be glad to send you electronic copies of these documents.  

We are presently working with FIT and the State Park geology team to set up a scholarship fund to perform the sediment monitoring in PARALLEL with the panel installation and the worm reef monitoring. Yes, if all goes well with FPP, some one will be able to earn an advanced degree in sustainable inlet management at FIT, while helping to maintain First Peak. In fact, one of our team members gave a lecture this semester at FIT regarding the wave science aspect of restoring First Peak.

The worm reef monitoring started in 2009 and in 2011 was awarded an ecology grant from the PADI Foundation.

We've posted open invitations on this forum many times to invite people to meet with the team and review some of the behind the scenes activity and potential.  We've also partnered with both local chapters of the Surfrider Foundation and we just held our 8th public forum this past Saturday, to a very small turnout.

Therefore we must reiterate.  The biggest impediment to FPP's success is lack of support from the surfing community. The science and technology is covered.  The scrutiny from the surfing community is well beyond the credentials and expertise of anyone not trained in the art.  However, we do apologize to those of you on here who have the scientific prowess, albeit your validity is watered down by the incessant trolling.

One last clarification.  The FPP does have a very narrow scope, and that is by design.  By working on a pilot project with full contingency under the guise of an Army Corps Experimental Permit, this project is practical and above all, economically feasible.  By making this a full-blown ecological, sediment, and wave science study fresh out the gates, we'll never succeed. These aren't our words, but rather the advice from some of the most prestigious and dignified coastal engineers in this country, who quid pro quo the anonymity of this forum, shall remain nameless.

We appreciate you bearing with us.

Cheers,

-------------------------

The First Peak Project is a 501(c)(3) public benefit organization whose mission is to restore the legendary wave First Peak at Sebastian Inlet to its former glory. 

 

www.firstpeak.org

Edited: 12/07/2017 at 08:49 PM by TheFirstPeakProject

Yeah just watched some inlet cam rewind from the morning on 12/6.

I see some wedge.

3rd peak is clearly bigger/juicier though and it's not too out of the north either...

And yeah I don't surf the inlet much for a reason... clearly not the only one either... love me some Monster Hole though

You going to drop that sand video btw FPP?

Matt.t ,,, not true I was the first one out at dawn Tuesday

I'm not matching donations at this point, but I'd really like to see the Inlet restored to a world class wave. One of these days I'll meet up with FPP and swig on some kool-aid to see if this makes sense, since $5 donations ain't gonna get it done in our lifetime.


-------------------------
"Don't count the days, make the days count." -Ali
#rydyrstrong

@fpp: ck pm

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"Don't count the days, make the days count." -Ali
#rydyrstrong

matt_t what are your thoughts on this study's findings as far as correlation between current state of 1st Peak and the changing state of the Sebastian Inlet system's bathymetry (you can read it all but mainly referring to illustrations on pages 20, 21, and 22):

http://www.sebastianinletdistrict.com/pdf/State_of_the_Sebastian_Inlet_Report_2013.pdf

Since you regurlarly surf the inlet, do you agree that on most solid swells from recent years it seems 3rd Peak/down the beach gets more energy than the 1st Peak zone?